Will AI Replace Your Job or Help You Reach Your Potential? | Derek Crager

[00:00:04] Every meaningful conversation begins with a question. I'm Adrienne Giffen and this is Now Youre Talking. In a world of constant notifications and endless scrolling, this podcast is an invitation to pause, get curious and explore the questions, stories and ideas that help us reconnect with what matters most. Because conversation builds connection. Let's begin.

[00:00:32] What if the greatest opportunity with AI isn't replacing people, but helping them discover what they're capable of? Today I'm joined by Derek Crager, founder and CEO of Practical AI, creator of Pocket Mentor and author of Human First AI. Derek developed Amazon's highest rated employee training program, but his perspective is also deeply personal.

[00:00:58] Diagnosed with autism, ADHD and dyslexia at age 50, he began to recognize that the differences he struggled with throughout his life were also some of his greatest strengths. Today he's helping people use AI to learn, build confidence and discover new possibilities.

[00:01:18] We talk about leadership, raising children in an AI world, the difference between knowledge and wisdom, and why technology works best when it helps people think rather than thinking for them.

[00:01:32] Derek, thank you for joining me today. Derek, thank you for joining me today. I'm looking forward to hearing about your perspective on AI and how we are at a fork in the road. And we can look at humans one way as a way to cut costs, or we can look at humans as a way to build our competitive advantage. So thank you for being here. Well, thank you so much for the invitation. I've been looking forward to this ever since we got it on the calendar.

[00:01:57] That's great. So tell me about your perspective about the Human First AI. Well, certainly, certainly. Before, the prerequisite to understanding my perspective came during my time at Amazon. I worked there in the reliability team, which these are the people that keep all the machines running, the engineers, the maintenance, etc.

[00:02:19] And while I was there, I had the opportunity to build out Amazon's highest rated employee training program in company history. So that's a pretty good feather in my cap that I like to promote because I'm promoting me, but because of what I took away from that. And that moral to that story is that when we give humans, people, the right information at the right time, they can do anything.

[00:02:44] So that's the foundation for which my practical AI has been built, because I leverage AI to deliver that information to the human, whether it's individuals sitting at home or employees on the work floor. All they have to do is just touch their ear for that magic button, and they can start talking to a mentor. And it's that conversational with.

[00:03:11] It's a human conversation, even though we know one side's AI, we're not trying to trick anybody, but we're leveraging AI to think with the human instead of for the human. And that's the pivotal difference right there. Yes, what that is that is pivotal. So tell me more about that. Share why that is such a difference.

[00:03:32] Well, we've heard a lot of headlines over the last few years about AI causing students not to think because they go to chat GPT or perplexity and they say, you know, write a term paper for me. And they copy and paste. So when you copy and paste, there's nothing that sticks to our brain.

[00:03:49] However, when we sit and we have a conversation or an observance, whether it's in an auditorium or a one-on-one like you are having right now, we have to process all this auditory information and it processes through our brain. So I could actually sit here and just have you dictate to me. And just by me writing down all the words, all that good knowledge is going through my brain.

[00:04:17] So that's the key here is this audible interface. So everything that I do is with AI is leveraged through the power of voice. So it's not sit and type and wait for an answer and copy and paste. Yes. It's really let's get this AI to think with the human. I've the philosophy behind this is called human first AI.

[00:04:41] So we put the human first because humans, I mean, let's face it, the biggest businesses in the world were built on the backs of humans. Yes. And every time that a business tries to replace a human, they're trying to mimic that human. But they're never going to get more than 100%, even if they get 100%. And this fork in the road that we're at, replacing humans or ignoring technology entirely.

[00:05:11] I wanted to propose a third choice. That's a human first AI where we can have AI that thinks with the humans to really get the best of both worlds. The best that AI has to offer, which really is nothing more than delivering the right information at the right time. And you can see how that closes my circle of satisfying what I learned at Amazon. That when we deliver the right information to the right person at the right time, that human's invincible.

[00:05:38] So, and can you tell or share the moment that you had this realization and that personal moment when you had this realization that there was a way to guide people and to relay that knowledge? Oh, certainly. Well, my time at Amazon, the program that I built was not based on AI. I just want to clarify there.

[00:06:03] I leveraged all the resources that Amazon had to make sure that we have that information to the right person at the right time. AI came around in the consumer realm, you know, which means, you know, people like you and I can dig into it about three or four years ago. So it's not that old. And I'm old enough to remember the implementation of the World Wide Web back in 1989. I was an early adopter.

[00:06:29] I actually won a digital award that said I was one of the first 100 online retail sites in the history of the world on the Internet. Why? Why is that something? Well, I wish I knew it was something because this was back at the time when only geeks and nerds were online. And I sold hats and shirts and shorts and five continents.

[00:06:56] And I got to a point where it's like, well, now this is going to be crazy. But I've satisfied, you know, all the opportunity that's out there because only geeks and nerds in my mind were going to be making purchases. So I buried my head in the sand in about 1993 and I stopped selling online and I didn't pull my head out of the sand until the late 90s. And I realized that, wow, the World Wide Web just exploded.

[00:07:25] And so I took that knowledge and I said, you know what, here we are with AI. So I'm going into this AI generation knowing that we're not going to stop it. Right. Whether we're scared of it, whether we're concerned about change, whether it happens to others or ourselves or our children or our families, we're not going to stop that. So how do we adapt it to us? Yes.

[00:07:52] And it was that point where I think we called a light bulb moment where just those two paths cross. I can use AI to deliver knowledge in a fundamental fashion that is easy. And if we can do it with voice, we can keep our eyes up, focus on our task. We can keep our hands up and available. Whereas if we're copying and pasting through a keyboard, we have to actually stop what we're doing.

[00:08:21] And when we stop what we're doing, we just lose all that energy and momentum. So we just have this mentor in my ear that can just tell us. And again, as a true mentor is, the philosophy here with Human First AI is not to just give answers. Right. Anybody can do that. But even the best teachers in the world, actually, I spoke with a teacher on an interview last week. She said children learn and all of us, you know, humanity, we're all children.

[00:08:51] But we learn when not when we're given the answer, but when we have to work it out ourselves. So in true mentor fashion, Human First AI delivers that ephemeral information, that information that is we only need once a year. Like, what's the model of that toner that goes in the copying machine? Right. We only need to know that when we need to know that. But how do we operate the copying machine or how do we operate a keyboard or a car or whatever it is?

[00:09:19] That's the type of stuff that we need to learn and ingrain. So Human First AI through the vocal interface says, well, you know, how would you do it? And what's great about AI, AI allows us to scale that personal conversation, that intellect in a manner that does not benefit one group more than the other. And on the flip side of that coin, there's no detriment to one group than the other. And I'm talking about neurodiversity.

[00:09:48] You know, all of our minds work differently. And even those, there's another term out there called neurotypical, which is just a fancy term for average. So the average person that socializes, they're not going to, they're going to maximize conversations with the AI because the AI can pick up just like a good socializing human can. You and I started speaking. It's like, hey, we started picking up on each other's cues and what we do good, what we do bad. We kind of covering for each other.

[00:10:17] And we just moved into the right conversation, the right tone, the right pacing. And AI can do that today. And that's what human first AI does. I find it so fascinating. What you mentioned in your book that knowledge should never retire. What's the difference, Derek, between knowledge and wisdom? Well, that's a great question, you know, and I wish I could give you a definitive answer that we can all just replicate cookie cutter fashion.

[00:10:45] Knowledge is information that can be passed on instantly, like a database, like a table of contents, you know, just list, you know, A is B, like logarithmic table, anything like that. Wisdom is knowing how to use that information in a way that that really can't be described in a typical how-to manual. And that how-to manual can be for a white collar job or a blue collar job, either one.

[00:11:11] It's, you know, start at step one, go to step two, go to step three. Knowledge is knowing what those 10 steps are in a process. Wisdom is knowing what to do when you get to step two or three and whatever you're working with or on hasn't read the manual. So it doesn't know it's supposed to be in a certain position. So now you have to improvise. And that's the value that humans give.

[00:11:33] And this fork in the road that you mentioned on their opening line here is that do we have AI replace all humanity or do we just ignore technology and walk away from it? So there's sacrifice on both sides. Human-first AI is a third option that I want everybody to know. And that's where AI supports the human in a manner that we leverage all the good skills that humans bring to the table. Yes.

[00:12:02] But we also need to cover for AI's holes. And what AI has been programmed to do, it's been programmed in a box. So when businesses implement AI, when they do it successfully, which according to an MIT survey, only about 5% of all companies that have implemented AI have done it successfully with a positive ROI.

[00:12:27] So even when you implement AI successfully for a company, let's say you're going to have great return on your investment for a year, 12, maybe 18 months. But then the company is going to become brittle. We all know that, well, objects in motion tend to stay in motion. And that works with a good business plan. But what happens when business changes? Humans adapt and AI doesn't. It doesn't.

[00:12:51] So these companies that even when they're successful and they're going to have higher profits when they are successful for the first 12 months or so, but they're going to become brittle. And the information, they're not going to have the wisdom of the humans if they replace humans. But they're going to have the data. So they're going to get to a spot where they can no longer improve. And even the brittleness of their new infrastructure is going to cause them to lose efficiencies.

[00:13:21] And that's the big difference right there. Humans know what to do and what decisions to make because, you know, we've heard that term, think outside the box. Yes. Humans are designed to do it. AI is not. That's such a great visual. So AI, as great as it is, will always sink in the box. And it's the humans that, and that's what's contributed to that 5% success of businesses.

[00:13:49] They were able to incorporate and bring the two together, the humans and the AI successfully. Okay. Well, that's fascinating. So you've had quite a journey. At age 50, you found out that you had ADHD, you were dyslexic and have some autism. How has that changed? Your own journey. How has that changed the way that you see leadership? Absolutely. Thank you for asking.

[00:14:17] My life has been a lot of, and I'm not claiming, you know, to have ownership of a bad, you know, history. But because I'm autistic, dyslexic, and suffer from ADHD as well. And I didn't know this for the first five decades of my life. I tried to compensate and figure out, well, why am I wrong all the time? Because even when I would go into a situation and offer the right answer, I wouldn't use contextual information.

[00:14:46] The words I chose, I understood, but others didn't. So they look at me and they accepted my answers less than I would if I spoke like a neurotypical normal, quote unquote, person here. So I was diagnosed at 50, and that was during my time at Amazon. So it actually helped contribute. Amazon has us evaluate ourselves once a year, and they always ask us, what's our superpower? And so I thought, you know what, my superpower are these differences.

[00:15:15] I'm going to take these differences. And because I've always had to try to be three steps ahead in the conversation to anticipate when I'm going to go off track and have a compensation moment for it, that's where I found out when I have the right information and the right context, then I can be successful day to day at my job and my career. And that's really what I built the program on that become Amazon's most successful training program. It was built on that.

[00:15:44] It all came down to the right information at the right time. And there's some compassion thrown in there. There's some servant leadership thrown in there. There's some change management techniques in there. You know, make sure you educate before you throw changes around to the group. And it's really, I think Brene Brown talks about exposing our vulnerabilities, and she's my favorite author.

[00:16:07] And if we just show and accept that we can be vulnerable, then others will tend to work with us more rather than against us. So I had that diagnosis at age 50. I put it on my corporate email signature. Say, hey, I'm a little bit different. So if a message doesn't come across clear, you know, feel free to ping me. Let's chat it out. Let's work through it. And so that really allowed me to embrace conversation and expose that vulnerability as an asset.

[00:16:37] Wow. I believe strongly that conversation builds connection. And it seems like we're aligned in that. If you're thinking of what kind of got all these questions for you, Derek, what kind of knowledge are leaders losing today without even realizing it? Well, most leaders aren't leaders. They're managers. And, you know, it goes through some leadership training. You know, we understand that those are code words for, you know,

[00:17:07] we should be managing products and leading people. But because managers slash leaders slash supervisors who's ever in that upper role, most of their jobs are turned into teachers at the moment. Hey, I don't know how to do this again. Or where do I go for this supply? And it's all Q&A answering. And so managers slash leaders, and let's stick with the leader portion now, cannot lead because they're putting out fires.

[00:17:36] They're putting out those spot fires. And this is why the supervision that we have across blue collar and white collar careers, that's why they are paid salaries most often. And that's why they work not eight hour days like, you know, somebody punching a clock, but they typically work 10, 12, 14 and 16 hour days because they're doing what they were paid to do after everybody else goes home because they're putting out those fires.

[00:18:06] And that's really the difference here. So when we have AI comes in here and we can empower the team, that allows leaders to actually be leaders and look for those opportunities to improve their team, not just, you know, cover their rear end for the report at the end of the week. And that's part of your story, isn't it? You were saying on your journey, you were doing that. You were saying the same thing over and over again.

[00:18:35] Wasn't that part of your light bulb moment when you said, you know, you can increase efficiency when you don't have to go over the same thing over and over again and people can access their own answers in their own time? No, 100 percent. Because when we train a team, when somebody comes to a company, there's always going to be some onboarding, whether it's one on one or one on 10, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:19:00] The training, again, speaks, whether it's an LMS or a live session, speaks to one person at a time and they have to figure out what that information is. And if we go through, I think as University of North Carolina, somewhere in North Carolina, one of those universities, they define this as the 70-20-10 learning model. So what they found out is that 70 percent of learning actually happens on the job.

[00:19:30] But what do we do when we onboard an employee or train or lead an employee? We're actually at the other end, that 10 percent. The 10 percent is traditional learning. And when I speak of traditional learning, it could be virtual or in-person, one-on-one, or it can be one-to-many. And so 10 percent of every day versus the 70 percent on the job, that's the difference.

[00:19:57] So to key in on your question, if we carry around this cool headset and we just say, hey, Pocket Mentor, I'm here at this location. How do I fix this? Or how do I get the production line running again? And then we can start conversing because you just said this a moment ago, conversation builds relationships. So we're building a relationship with our AI so that AI is going to know us better than we know ourselves. And it can anticipate how we speak.

[00:20:27] And it's always there to serve that information. So if we have a typical, I don't know, I'm pulling this number out of the air. Every company, every business has different ratios. Some one to 200, some one to three. But if we have 10 employees out here doing the work and they can get answers for themselves, just like they were talking to the best employee in there, they can get answers for themselves while they're sitting at their desk or in their own conference

[00:20:54] room building or on a production line, then they can solve their own problems. It's true empowerment. It's not empowerment of let me make a decision. It's empowerment of giving them the information so they can not only make a decision, but follow through to success. And that frees up the leadership. And oh, that's so fascinating.

[00:21:15] So then how does that 70, 20, 2010, how does that flip using your pocket mentor? Well, if we have a true mentor in our pocket, it's actually with us 100% of the day. So we can learn from it for 100% of the time instead of 10% of the time. So just that right there makes it X or 10 times as efficient.

[00:21:44] And is it similar to ChatGPT where the more you use it, the more it gets to know who we are, how we think and our perspective? So does each employee then have its own, their own relationship with their own? So it adapts to each person. It does. And there's no special hardware in a true human first environment. It's we can use the physical hardware that we have.

[00:22:12] We can do it with or without internet or network access. It's just there. Like we've seen in sci-fi shows and what the kids have been playing on PlayStation and Xbox, what they do, they all carry their AI on their user personnel. Yeah, that's so fascinating. So if you could preserve one piece of wisdom for the next generation, Derek, something that you would never want to lose, what would that be?

[00:22:41] Well, I think it can be applied to the adoption of AI or any topic. And that bit of wisdom is don't look, don't start with a solution and look for a problem for it to fix. Start with the problem and understand that problem. And then if the solution is the latest buzzword out there, and today that buzzword is AI, well, then great. Implement that solution.

[00:23:08] But I believe there's been a lot of failures when any new technology comes around that companies just try to jump on the bandwagon, so to speak, and say, hey, I want to implement that. Find me a way to implement it. And it's inefficient. So I think Occam's razor here, you know, the shortest distance between two points is what we're saying. So just start with your problem and just solve the problem and be open to any solution. Don't try to shoehorn a special solution just to be using it.

[00:23:38] And just, so that's easier said than done, isn't it? Oh, absolutely. Because there's so much noise out there. And there's so many competing views. And there's fear. So how do you cut through all of that to get to, so you're that 90 or you're that 5% that succeeds and not the 95% that doesn't? Right.

[00:24:06] So to answer that question is why I wrote the book, Human First AI. And within that book, there's one chapter dedicated to the Human First AI manifesto. And there's 12 articles there that outline or provide a blueprint for anybody, whether you're an employee or an employer, that you can map, identify those opportunities, and map AI to resolve those opportunities in the most beneficial way

[00:24:35] that truly supports employer and employee. Because every company is different. And the team and the cultures, they vary. So, you know, it's not, it isn't a one size fits all. Is it? Or is it? Well, the game plan is because the questions that are asked and the direction that the manifesto leads the reader into is being able to, it's more questions, identify what are your,

[00:25:05] let's just start with your top three opportunities and let's break those out into smaller pieces, work packages, we call them in the project management realm that I've come from. And it's addressing them one at a time. And to go to a more, I guess, generalized philosophical point, you know, how do you eat an elephant, Adrienne? Yeah. One piece at a time. One bite at a time. One bite at a time. Yes, indeed. One bite at a time. Yeah. Okay.

[00:25:32] So that's, so people can create their own individualized solution by going through your process in your book. Absolutely. Fantastic. So, so tell me, share your perspective on kids. Because I know parents are a bit freaked out and you hear it in the news all the time about AI and how we mentioned before we started recording how kids are not, or parents are afraid that their kids aren't going to learn the basics and are not going to advance in the same way because of AI.

[00:26:02] Can you share your perspective on that? Certainly. And I agree with them a hundred percent. If, if the only interface with AI is a copy and paste mechanism and they're connected to the worldwide web. And because that's where these LLMs have been trained from. If you go to the chatgpt.com, if you go to gemini.google.com, if you go to Claude, if you go to perplexity, there's actually over a million of these LLMs that are out there and available.

[00:26:32] But the biggest ones that we hear, they do some incredible things, but we also hear the problematic side of it. By when we hear that we're looking for an answer and it gives us the wrong answer or it's out of context. That's because the knowledge domain that these generalized LLMs, these generalized AIs draw from truly is all the knowledge on the internet because that's how they've been trained.

[00:26:58] And we know before AI was given to us, you know, for personal use, if we just went to a search bar, you know, go to Google or Bing and we typed in a question, they wouldn't give us one answer because there is no one answer. They would give us what, five or 10 at a time, right? Yes, yes. And then we can scroll down. And I mean, if you're really jumping down the rabbit hole, you could be at answer number 72, 73, all the way up to 100 sometimes. And it may or may not.

[00:27:27] They're giving us multiple choice. And that's what happens when the knowledge that the AI draws from is from all the information in the world. And this is one reason I believe these AGIs that their companies are trying to build, which is a one AI to answer all questions. I really think that will, that really won't happen, not in the next 20 or 30 or 50 years maybe,

[00:27:54] because of all the bad information that's out there. But now, now let's draw back down. And let's say we put this AI mechanism, this muscle, this CPU, however you want to think about this engine that grabs answers. A lot of acronyms there. A lot of them, yeah. Yeah, and you know, that's a self-preservation mechanism I developed throughout my life because words in my mind are different than the words that people I speak with.

[00:28:23] So I'd always offer two or three at a time, hopefully connecting with somebody out there so they have an idea what I'm talking about. Well, first of all, before we, what's an LLM? A large language model. It's, there's lots of acronyms and technologies. So AI, artificial intelligence, LM, large language model. And that's really where these AIs are trained on or from a large language group,

[00:28:51] which is like all the English context on the web, all the Spanish context on the web. You know, the language itself of words is how it's trained. So going back to kids then and children and their ability to learn with AI being there, how do we make it so kids thrive instead of the opposite? Well, we delivered that for all the stories, whether you and I had that invisible friend growing up or not,

[00:29:20] that invisible friend is some way we can confide in. So AI allows us to bring that invisible friend alive to give us companionship. So at the most formative time in humanity, you know, that zero to 18, just throwing out a group there is if we have children that are free to ask any question in the world

[00:29:44] without retribution, being judged by peers, being judged by teachers, being judged by parents, siblings. You know, a lot of humans don't speak out because of fear of judgment. So what AI does in the New England Journal of Medicine, or is it the New England Journal of Psychology? I don't know if they're one and the same or their sister publications there,

[00:30:10] but they had a report that showed that especially in the younger generations, humans like to speak to AI because they don't have to worry about judgment and they can be more open, they can learn more. So when it comes down to children, there's that fear of, well, but I don't know what AI is going to teach my children. That's a valid question and it's a good question. If we look at the Chad GPTs in the world that are out there that are answering from all the knowledge on the web,

[00:30:39] and now we narrow it down, whether it's to a company, to a role, teacher or student, and let's just narrow this down to, oh, I don't know, how about seventh grade biology and for Mrs. Chapman? And that's the only knowledge domain that the AI voice interface has access to. Then it's only going to deliver answers to the child from that topic. So in this manner, we're not hiding any information.

[00:31:09] We're just focusing on the information that wants to be learned. And so the student, the child, whether they're at school or away from school, can just start asking questions. It's like, why? And then you get that answer, then why? Then why? Then why? And the neat thing about AI is it doesn't get frustrated. It doesn't frown. It doesn't get those micro expressions. It's like, okay, I'll be quiet now, you know, type of teacher thing.

[00:31:37] And then the other part is that it's that scalability is the big value here. Scalability of defined knowledge for a specific topic. And if we stick to schools, seventh grade biology, Mrs. Chapman. Mrs. Chapman has her seventh grade class. It's 40 minutes long. And she has 30 students in class. Simple math means that if she's giving her time equally to each student,

[00:32:05] they're barely going to have more than a minute of time with the teacher. And that's disregarding any ultimate, you know, teaching. So when a teacher teaches, the best thing the teacher looks for are open eyes, curiosity, and questions. But when you don't have time for those questions, the child just kind of sits there. And the neat thing about it is if we look at the bottom 5% of students or intellect or capability

[00:32:33] and the top 5% of students, you have students that either never ask a question in public or you have the students that may ask questions and give answers all the time and they become the know-it-all Nellies or know-it-all Neds. And so now they're hogging time and now their peers are judging them for that. So lots of this conflict going on all the time. Whereas if a student asks a question and a teacher gives an answer

[00:33:02] and they give a use case scenario, well, then that's it. Let's go on to another topic. That student can, on their breaks, on their study hall, at night after school or on the weekends, if they carry around their own pocket mentor for studying, they just tap that button and they talk to the virtual Mrs. Chapman and they ask these biology questions and they get answers and they can go down the rabbit hole to expand their own mind.

[00:33:30] There's a Japanese learning technique or it's a school called Kumon, K-U-M-O-N, that allows students to go at their own pace. Yes. And it's great because students that are behind can eventually catch up or students that are ahead can not only compete and cooperate in class, but they can also move forward and learn more. What AI does, it gives that ability to every student.

[00:33:58] It democratizes knowledge to the point where the students can get into these crazy conversations with this knowledge source and just keep asking questions and asking questions and asking questions and learning. That is so fascinating to me. So we're at a fork in the road in the educational system as well. You know, in every aspect of where we are with technology. Wow. So, so, Derek, thank you for sharing. Knowing what you know now,

[00:34:26] what would you do the same and what would you do differently? Well, I would say that advice I always give is to don't feel shamed. Don't feel, you know, ask those questions. Look to new technology. Not everything is going to be a cure-all, but be curious enough to learn and find out for yourself and spend enough time with anything and everything that's new for you to get comfortable with it

[00:34:53] and comfortable enough to make a decision. Says, you know what? Maybe this isn't for me, but at least I know and I make an unknowledgeable decision rather than just shying away from something because a neighbor, a friend, a teacher, or a parent said, yeah, you shouldn't do that. So that's what you've probably always done and that's the same, what you do the same. What would you do differently knowing what you know now? Gosh, what would I do differently? I think that what I'd do differently is just be more open

[00:35:23] and take things less personally. At a certain point, we get beat up and we get this PTSD, whether it's official or not. We have this fear of being hit over the head, you know, sticks and stones may break my bones type of thing. So I would take things less personally because by putting up walls to protect myself, I now know, looking back,

[00:35:51] I now know that putting up those walls, it may have protected myself from getting hurt, but it also stopped me from learning and connecting when others out there were actually trying to connect with me and they didn't have any ill will toward me. I made those judgments. So I'm as much to blame for not connecting as the other person on the other side of the table. Yes. Oh, well, thank you for that.

[00:36:17] May I ask you, and we'll probably touch on the same things, may I ask you questions from my board game? Now you're talking. Please. I'm looking so forward to hearing. So what would your younger self be most surprised about your life today? My younger self that I guess I talk and connect to as many people as I do, that I went into a career where I actually stood in front of a room and taught large groups of people

[00:36:46] because I didn't speak when I was little. That's so interesting. So, and was that part of the protective wall that you put up? It was, yeah, it was. And some of it was proactive and some of it was just because I didn't know how to connect. And yet now you're trying to, on your path, connect so many people in their own way so they can be the most successful in business. Businesses can be the most efficient. It's fascinating.

[00:37:15] Businesses, employers, employees, and just individuals with AI allows us to begin those conversations without fear of being judged. And just the act of conversing, even with a vocal AI, it allows us to prime the pump, to throw another affirmism, or is that a metaphor? I got to ask my teacher on that one. It allows us to practice conversations. So when we get the opportunity to speak to another human, then we're going to feel more comfortable

[00:37:45] and we will be at ease and the other person will be at ease. So conversations with humans, you're nailed, hit the hammer, hit the nail right on the head. You're right on point with your box game. Well, thank you. What advice would you give to high school graduates today? I would say that whether you're going to college or to a trade school, evaluate that. There's been a lot of headlines today for going into trade. So just on a career path wise, consider trades

[00:38:15] because you'll make more money today and you'll be more employable. White collar jobs out there right now, I just saw yesterday, the unemployment numbers for white collar jobs is higher unemployment than for trades. And I came through the trades background. I've worked in automotive automotive manufacturing for 15 or 20 years before I went to Amazon. And hands-on trades that people actually build and they're tactile with their hands,

[00:38:44] tactile with their hands. There's a shortage out there. And so that's the career path opportunity. The other side is that for those that do go to college and these numbers have been out there for quite some time, that it doesn't matter what you study. It really doesn't as long as you continue to be a lifelong learner. Because when you get a degree and it's in a certain discipline, 90% of people will not be working in that discipline

[00:39:13] within four years of graduating. Really? And is that accelerated over because of technology? Well, it's not technology so much itself. It's just change in business patterns and businesses are here to sell things in different levels and humans change. Society changes. There's growth patterns. Once we get an influx in a certain career role or career path, well, then there's a vacuum. And then to fill that vacuum,

[00:39:43] we've got this whole bunch of people going in to study that. And then once they study that, now there's too many in that career path. So now it's kind of like a dog-eat-dog world. That makes sense. And so there's lots of people that are changing. And then just the fact that technology does contribute to it and we're seeing that. Let's go back to the 40s and 50s when AT&T decided to replace their operators that were human. They actually had to plug in wires with computers. That was a similar point of our using

[00:40:13] technology to replace humans. So it's not about whether we're going to pick the right role for us. It's about keeping our brains adaptable, pliable, and be open to choice because we're no longer in, let me work someplace for 30 or 40 years and retire. Everything that we do today, you're not stuck in anything and you can make that choice to change your pattern, your career path any day of the week. So just be open

[00:40:42] to the flexibility and embrace change. Don't let it scare you. Okay. Thank you. Just, how did your, a couple more questions. How did your 20s contribute, Derek, to who you are? How did my 20s contribute to how I am? To who you are today. Well, I've always been very self-sufficient, I think, because I had to. I had a, you know, less inamorable childhood.

[00:41:13] I've lived on my own since I was 18 years old. I got married when I was 25, so that was a dramatic change as well. So, I've had to figure things out on my own and then when I got married and we had kids, then it was all about teaching my children, but I understood also the value of teaching other humans and I think that's a lot of the foundation that I carry with me today is it just goes back to that, you know,

[00:41:42] when people have the right information at the right time, they can do incredible things. So many things that you've said has just shown that there's just been a pathway and steps that have led you to this place and interesting, you know, where you're going to go from here, but if you were to connect the dots, there's a lot of dots to connect there. Words of wisdom. What words of wisdom do you have for other parents or other business leaders? Well, the words of wisdom is, I think I'll just

[00:42:12] piggyback on what I said, be open to change, embrace change. You don't have to adapt change, but embrace it enough to understand it so you can make a good decision and that way we're choosing our own path and we're not having it being chosen for us. Okay, great. And I'm going to look at AI very differently now. Your picture of AI in a box and it's the humans that adapt and work outside the box is going to stay with me. So,

[00:42:42] thank you very much for being here and for sharing your words of wisdom and all your insight. You're quite welcome and it's great to hear that because that's really the message I'm sharing is this third option. You know, this fork and road has three tongs here. That third option of human first AI, if you allow me, I'll give every one of the listeners here a free chapter. The very first chapter in my book, they can decide if it's right for them and they can go to humanfirstai.net

[00:43:10] and I'm not going to sell them anything. I'm not going to capture them and spam them. It's just there for you to read just as it is. Don't even have those name and email captures to read the book. So, I want to plant that seed in everybody because we're not at the end of the world and a lot of people think we are and that's... That is so great. So, we'll put that link in the show notes so people can access it. I appreciate that because it's beneficial for all humanity.

[00:43:44] What stays with me from this conversation is Derek's belief that technology can help us become more capable without losing what makes us human. But it's his personal story that really brings that message home. At 50, Derek began to recognize that the differences he had spent years struggling with were also strengths that could help others. And I think there's something we can all take from that.

[00:44:14] Sometimes it takes looking back at what we've lived through to recognize what we've learned and what we have to offer. Thank you, Derek, for sharing your experience and your perspective. And to everyone listening, here's a question to take into your next conversation. What's something you once saw as a weakness that you've come to recognize as a strength? Thank you for joining me today. I'm Adrienne Giffen.

[00:44:43] Every meaningful conversation begins with a question and conversation builds connection. Visit AdrienneGiffen.com and join the conversation where you'll discover ideas that spark laughter, reflection, and connection with yourself and those around you. Until next time, let the conversations begin.