Why You Keep Repeating the Same Relationship Patterns — and What It Takes to Change Them | Johanna Lynn on Family Imprints

Hello and welcome back to Magic in the Muck, a soul's compass for change. I'm Jennifer Nagle, and I'm so glad that you're here today. So much of what we explore here on Magic in the Muck is about becoming curious about what lies beneath the surface of our lives, patterns we find ourselves repeating, and ways that we've learned to protect ourselves and experiences that have shaped who we've become, and I'm so excited to have you as my guest today, Joanna Lynn. She is someone who I first came in came to know through Thrive through our shared connection as mentors, and I've been so looking forward to having this conversation. So, welcome, Joann. Just a little bit about about you for for the listeners. Joanna is, well, these are some of the roles that she plays: she's a mom, systemic therapist, author, and founder of the Family Imprint Institute. For over 20 years, she's been exploring how unresolved family dynamics and the patterns we inherit can continue to shape our closest relationships, often in ways that we don't consciously recognize. Her work brings together the body, nervous system, and a deeply compassionate understanding of the family systems that we come from, and she's also a teacher on Insight Timer, where she offers practices and courses supporting people in understanding themselves and their relationships more deeply. There's so much more that I could say, but rather than me telling you about Joanna's work, I would much rather let her just have a conversation together. So welcome, Joanna, and I'm really glad that you're here.

Thank you. It's always great to share time with you.

So, tell us about yourself, and I guess your journey. What led you to become so interested in the patterns that we inherit through our families?

Oh, yeah. We'll start at the beginning. Yeah. I I think I've always been I was even a kid who was curious about, like, why is that girl being mean, you know, at recess? What What What's that about? And why is this teacher kind and this teacher is, you know, quick to anger? So I think I've always been routed with curiosity and trying to look underneath the the hood of things. And then in my own personal life, I was in a marriage that ended because of an affair that led to divorce, and I was kind of found this work in pieces, and I would I was in pieces and wasn't sure I wanted to put myself back together the way I was, and wanted to understand my role in how everything fell apart. And so I came to this work at such a convergence of the perfect time, and was able to make sense of how things built up in my relationship to kind of such an explosion place, and then what rebuilding my life would look like on the other side of that, and now I get to share this work with clients that are in a similar place, and so bring personal experience to that, along with a lot of insights from the family constellation perspective. And integrative body psychotherapy was another area I really dove into, and it helped make so much sense of my own my own pain and my own life experience.

Mmm. I'm wondering, can you say a little bit little bit more about what you mean when we talk about family imprint?

Mhm. Yeah, a lot of people aren't taught to think about ourselves in kind of the fabric of our whole family system, and so I'll often share with clients, it's kind of like you're one square of a quilt. And we want to make sure we've got mom's square and dad's square and the grandparents square, and before you know it the whole quilt is filled up. And so when we look at ourselves as an individual, I think we miss so much. We miss the full context of, well, how any of us get to be the way we are, and so my lens is really through the larger context of, you know, why are you stuck in these certain patterns, or why is this addiction so hard to break, or how does this reaction make sense? And then we can go from there.

Yeah, I love that, because, you know, in this, well, in our Western society, this individualistic, like, Why is this happening to me? or What's going on with me? and those wider webs of interconnectedness, you know, with with family, with our ancestors, and with, and where all these patterns that we that we have, that we've inherited, that we've learned, and where they come from. I love that image of a quilt. Mhm, yeah. Yeah, wow.

It puts so much together with just one image, right? A picture's worth a thousand words, isn't that what they say?

Yeah, at least a thousand words.

Mhm.

Yeah, something that I've been thinking and talking about a lot lately is the experience of becoming the capable one. You know, the the person who takes care of others and anticipates other people's needs and carries responsibility, and some people say, Well, that's just who I am. You know, say, Oh, that's just who I am. And I wonder how some of these qualities that we think of as who we are actually have roots in what we've learned about what we needed to do to feel safe or to survive or stay connected.

Yeah. That's almost like where my curiosity begins, you know, that's just how I am. Well, that's just the first page of the story. And so, you know, I think those of us who are therapists are often, you know, therapists for a reason, and we were the capable ones or we were I've had people say to me, Gosh, I was my parent's mediator by the time I was four or five. And so there is this instinct maybe or way of being where we lean in to notice the temperature of the room before we even notice our own temperature. Mhm. And so a lot of the times it crops up in our 40s, 50s, or thereabouts where we start to wonder, wait a minute here. What's the cost of that? Just because I can notice my friend's distress doesn't mean necessarily she might want to talk about it, you know, just because we're meeting for coffee. Mhm. And so it's interesting where these traits come from and how they follow us and how we're the friend maybe someone can call at 2:00 a.m. But and so it's starting to make the decision about how much of who I learned to be in my family do I still choose to be today?

Right. And that word choice is so important, isn't it? Who do I choose to be or how do I choose to be? Yeah, if you've been the one carrying or noticing someone who's in distress, how much of that do we sometimes carry or take on that's not even ours to carry?

Yeah. And I think sometimes without even noticing, like you said earlier, Well, this is just who I am. I'm just the friend everyone can count on. And I think with my experience, I don't know about the clients you've supported, but not until we reach maybe a burnout phase or something happens with our own health or we've got our own crisis to deal with, whatever that might be, do we start to take notice, Hey, hey, wait a sec, you know, if I've got $100 of energy to spend in a day, how much of it is being spent out there? And wait, I I think I might need to keep some for me.

Yeah. Well, and from personal experience, if we ignore it for too long, it shows up. Our body Our body is so wise and it speaks to us about, Hey, you're not listening. Your energy needs replenishing, and

No kidding.

I'm going to tell you

Remember me? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. So our closest relationships seem to have a real incredible ability to bring our patterns right to the surface. You know, we can even as therapists, I know I can be so good with like helping other people and other people's family systems to, you know, take a look and and transform, but when it's our own close relationships, our own patterns come right to the surface, often in ways that we don't particularly enjoy. So I'm wondering, like, what can our triggers or our recurring conflicts or relationship struggles reveal about the deeper patterns that we're carrying?

Oh, that's such a beautiful question. I was just teaching a workshop before I got on here with you today, and that was kind of the heart of what we were speaking about. And it kind of really boils down to what's unresolved with our mom or our dad finds its way to show up in our intimate relationships. And so instead of going, Well, they always do X, Y, Z, you know, looking outward towards your partner, it can be really transformative to sort of sit and go, What is the trigger for me about that? And what's familiar about that? It's almost like we can jump timelines into being, you know, the teenager who's digging her heels in or or the toddler who's collapsed because she's not going to get her needs met. And how quickly it can happen, just in the blink of an eye, and conflict or even any sort of disconnection inside of our intimate relationships, it's like it's just sitting under the surface. And that's what sort of brings it forward. And the longer I've been in this work and working with, you know, couples in distress, that's my that's my specialty, the more I really believe that we're brought into relationship for this sort of higher purpose of really healing that deep, deep stuff that relationships only really reveal it. Yeah. It really is a gift, isn't it? Like it might feel like it might not feel like it in the moment, but that gift of being given the opportunity to work through and to heal some of these really deep-seated patterns and to shift them that we wouldn't have that opportunity if we were not in relationship. So Right. Yeah. That's right. One of the participants in today's class said, Oh, I'm just going to wait until I'm 100% healed before I go out and date again. And And I gave her that exact smile. And I said, Oh, gosh, none of us would be dating or in relationship at all. Yeah. And so much of the research about attachment sciences and everything really on the topic really does say that's where we learn. That's where

we course correct. That's where we even find these triggers is being in relationship and being open to learn together.

Yeah, and that healing really does happen in community. We need relationship and community for healing. So, I love what you're saying there. And I wonder how, you know, becoming curious about these patterns, how our curiosity changes the way we understand ourselves and the other person.

Mhm. I have this quote coming in from a book I read. Who knows where it was, what book it was, but the topic was something like, Get curious instead of furious. And so I'm kind of like live by that now. And so, what about this sparked me or pulled me in? Let me follow that trajectory versus getting reactive or or even staying in hurt for too long. It's almost like that curiosity leads us across the bridge into, what's this really about? Because life's too short to have the same argument and be stuck in the same cycles. Yeah. So we sort of have to decode them, like, what about this pulled me under so much so that we don't get hooked next time it comes around.

I love that. You get curious instead of furious. Well, and there's something about as soon as we're curious, it feels like it it slows us down and really starts to regulate our nervous system to be able to settle. Like there's something about shifting from furious Yeah. into being curious that even that energy just shifts.

Agreed. And one of the things I really like about it is it might press pause on the taking it personal. So if I'm curious, then I'm sort of more open to context. But if I take it personal, I'm getting ready to respond, or to get angry, or to be hurt about it. And so then we're sort of lost down that sort of path instead of considering what else this might be connected

to. Yeah. Exactly. And awareness With greater awareness leads to making better choices. What happens after awareness? Cause awareness isn't enough for transformation. What comes next after awareness?

Mhm. That is our first step, isn't it? And then I think we really have to step into action, kind of like walk our talk, where we're responding with compassion instead of just waiting for the other person to stop talking so we can say something, you know? That where we're living from the place of, you know, if love were to answer, what might she say? Or if I were to hold the full context of why my spouse disappointed or reacted this way, what might I be open to understand? And so we start to live by a different, not set of rules, but we're sort of stepping in with a wider lens.

That's what I was thinking. Like it opens, it opens up to more infinite possibilities really. Yeah. What if? Mhm. Yeah. Even with greater awareness, or under- like we might understand where a pattern came from or have tremendous insight or a new aha moment, and yet we still find we find ourselves doing the very thing that we said we weren't going to do again.

Yeah.

These patterns that keep repeating and get ingrained.

That's it.

Yeah, what helps us move from understanding our patterns to actually having more freedom and choice within them?

I think we can't skip over the practice of self-compassion. And I think for me, for years, I could really extend compassion to others much more easily. It took me really sitting in my own patterns for, I'll admit it, years before I could really embody self-compassion. And so one of my main triggers is sort of feeling like, well, my needs don't matter as much, and I'll just do it, and all of this, you know, the capable healer thing, and really beginning to soften into, well, any little girl that grew up in this way would feel that way. And so it's kind of turning towards little Joanna and not making myself wrong for how could you feel like this again, why are you getting triggered by this again? Instead, moving towards that self-compassion to understand the foundation of why that response is where it is. And then, things started to soften and I could respond very differently to the same things that would come up.

Mhm. Yeah. And then in responding differently as the same things come up, what do you notice shifting with that different response?

Mmm, certainly less reactive,

Mhm,

certainly, it's almost like there's the invisible pause button where you just can hold on a minute and kind of sink back into more of an observer role, into what I need to do or how I should show up. Much of the performer part of me got to fall away, which is such a relief, so much less energy required to like, you know, hold that up, and to really just be a little bit more honest and clear with myself.

Mhm. Well, and I hear honest and more clear with yourself, and with that self-compassion, that's more kind Yeah. and loving with yourself.

That's it. Mhm. That said, it took me a while to get there, but I'm not giving it up now.

That's awesome. Yeah. Well, you this podcast is called Magic in the Muck, and

Mhm.

cuz I'm I am fascinated by what can emerge through the difficult and the messy and the chaos and the unexpected parts of our lives. So when you look at your own journey, what has finding magic in the muck meant for you?

Oh, wow. As you said that, I was sort of thinking, isn't that the human condition that until we're squeezed, until the muck gets so dirty and so uncomfortable, do we go, Okay, like, it's time to get momentum out of this. And so I would say that divorce I mentioned in the earlier, so that was sort of more of growing through the negative and discovering, rebuilding after heartbreak, but also becoming a mom and the birth of our son and how that shifted and transformed things. I would say the pregnancy was wonderful. The birth was more the muck and and the challenge. There were a lot of touch-and-go moments in that. Yeah, and I think as human beings, we all look forward to the light and the easy, but did I really grow? Was there really insights at that time? And and have to be honest and say not so much. I could maybe appreciate and have gratitude, but there are these sort of squeeze moments where life really changes, where we're almost forced to reflect and forced to choose, Is this way of being really supportive of the life I want? And making those necessary changes.

Mhm. What did you need to muster within yourself to do that?

I think a lot of self-belief that was not there, you know, to begin with, and so it had to be found, mined, if you will, like explored and discovered.

Yeah.

Which again feels sort of hard-earned, and then it's like, Ooh, I don't want to let that go. So it's a, it becomes a part of you almost, and maybe that's why as we age, we have a little bit more wisdom, a little more emotional intelligence, there's a trusting ourselves more, and maybe it comes from these moments, these hard-earned moments. I think bringing the insight, because we're not taught to think systemically, to really consider, Wow, there's more to my experience, to my reaction, to my hurt than just me. And so to start to look at the wider picture, to bring in more components, and to start to look at, let me get some insight about what did my mom struggle with? Maybe what did my dad leave unfinished? Even above, even with our grandparents, to determine why am I struggling with this. Even after all the things I've tried, it's still a hook. Well, the answers might be somewhere there in the family tree.

Mhm. Is there some kind of guided practice that you'd be willing to share with the listeners?

Absolutely, absolutely. So as long as your listeners aren't driving. Right. I'm going to I wanted to make that's clear. Right, that's right. And if you are driving, you can follow along and just sort of let your body be responsive and and open to it, but for those of you who can, please close your eyes and just drop into your body so that you can listen more to what's going on inside. And I'd like to encourage you to take a few deep breaths so that you can just land here and now, letting go of anything that's come before this time. And I'd like you to bring into your mind's eye your family table. And so you might design that somewhere out in nature, picnic form. You might find yourself back in the dining room you grew up in. I'd like you to notice the subtleties, like the shape of the table. Is it round or rectangular? Is it a picnic table in the backyard with a big umbrella in the center? Allowing yourself to notice where you are around the table, and orient to who is across from you, who sits beside you. And I'd like to encourage you to include everyone. Maybe the sister you haven't spoken to in a while. Maybe your dad who left early. Maybe your mom who it feels hard to look her squarely in the eyes. Maybe an aunt who moved away and you never heard much from her. But one of the main tenets in family constellation work is that everyone belongs. So if you take a moment and include everyone, notice where your eyes rest easily, and where you might want to pass by quickly, where your heart might feel a little bit of sorrow, sitting across from someone. Perhaps you miss them, and they're not with us in physical form anymore. Maybe the heart feels a bit heavy because the way things were left last. Maybe you look across at your brother, and there's just love that streams. Allow yourself a moment to feel all of it, where the love flows easily, and where it doesn't, where it might get hooked up in what wasn't said or wasn't done, or where things

might feel a bit heavy. Allowing yourself to notice who sits beside you. Taking a moment to look to your left and look to your right, tuning into your body here, and notice if you feel comfortable and at ease, or a bit of a bracing, discomfort. There's nothing right or wrong about anything that's happening here. You're just allowing yourself to land and arrive at your family table and explore the truth of your experience, connected to this space that you come from, that your thoughts, your perspectives, where it all comes from, and allowing yourself to just almost as if a nod from the inside. I am your daughter. I am your sister. I am your niece. I am your cousin. Really naming your belonging. I think for many of us, we can feel this kind of hustle to belong, or who do I need to be in order to fit in here? But allowing yourself to notice you don't need to do anything other than be yourself, other than feel your heart, be in your body, and join in to this family table. You don't need to be anything other than you are, in order to belong, and connecting to where that feels easy, and where that might feel like a stretch. Allowing yourself to look towards your mom and dad, and to simply say to them, Thank you for this gift of life. I will continue to do good things with it. And it's almost as if there feels like a parting words there, or a way to say, Thank you for this gathering.

And it's time for me to take everything I've noticed, everything I've collected here, and pull it into my heart to feel that internal strength, so that I can drop into my center, and as you say thank you to each person at this family table, and you feel yourself walking down your own path, taking all of the gifts and even the challenges that have helped you grow, right along with you. And then when you're ready, very slowly in your own time, bringing your awareness back into the here and now. And maybe you want to take just a moment to journal any insights that might have come up from connecting with your family in this very internal, very safe way of reflecting.

Thank you. That was so beautiful. Pause this podcast and take a moment to really savor what came to you during this beautiful guided meditation. I was right there. I was at two different tables, actually. Awesome. Yeah, one was that the family where my my parents still live in the house that I grew up in. And I was just there for dinner the other night, and do you know, I still sit in the same spot that was my chair as a little kid. That's my That's my seat.

I'm not surprised. Yeah.

It's so interesting. Yeah. So and then there was also the expanded as the quilt expands and the people who are no longer here, physically here, and just so I needed a bigger table. Yeah. And then I'm wondering, you know, some people who have had a lot of trauma in their childhood, or a lot of trauma at their table. And I'm wondering, any words about that that you want to share?

Yeah, of course. That's an important consideration to bring in. And so, a very important part of family constellation work is the philosophy that the family soul does not allow for an exclusion. And so, even if that exclusion is for safety, is for understandable hurt and harm. And so I think the deepest work that we can do, even if that perpetrator sits directly at our table, is begin to look behind. What on earth happened to Dad to have him confuse father-daughter love, or father-son love, to cross the lines into what is called distorted love? And so I'm going to say nine times out of 10, if not every time, we're going to see the abuse Dad suffered to cross those lines and get so confused. And so a big part of our own healing is: can, is there the possibility to step out of holding it as personal, holding it as something that only happened to me, or say my siblings, that what pain is Dad spilling over, or Grandpa spilling over, or Uncle whoever, that had this happen in at our family table, so that perhaps he has a seat at the table, but you're at the other end, or that you take the space that you need, but that there's an understanding that he can still have a place in your family, in

your heart? Yeah. And that the healing work is not just with Healing the family line, and Yeah.

So, so true.

Yeah. Yeah.

And that that hurt's got to come from somewhere.

Yeah. Thank you so much. How can our listeners find you?

Well, certainly on my website, which is simply my name .ca, Johannalynn.ca, and then I teach regularly as a mentor, as do you, on thrive.one, and I hold it's the last Sunday of every month, it's called the Resolution Circle, and it's a gathering for women where we do constellation work, we'll do constellations together online, and it's been really beautiful, Jennifer. It's sort of like whoever comes, what their questions are, it guides the topics that we explore, and it's just been it's just been getting richer and richer every single time we gather. It's one of my favorite things that I that I do.

That is wonderful. I'm going to make sure that all this goes into the show notes too, so that they can find you. And I really want to thank you for this conversation. It was really rich and meaningful for me.

Oh, thanks for having me.