What does it really mean to lead from a place of congruence—especially when you’re exhausted, overwhelmed, or quietly questioning yourself? In this deeply honest conversation, Jennifer Nagel sits down with therapist, coach, and group practice mentor Lisa Catallo to explore the messy, human side of leadership. Together, they unpack burnout, boundaries, imposter syndrome, and the quiet loneliness many therapists and leaders carry behind the scenes. This episode is an invitation to reconnect with yourself, reclaim your voice, and discover how the “muck” can become the very place where alignment, authenticity, and transformation begin.
What You’ll Hear:
- Congruence isn’t a concept—it’s a practice. You can’t guide others toward authenticity while abandoning your own needs. True leadership begins with living what you invite others into.
- Burnout is often a signal of disconnection, not failure. What feels like “mess” is often the moment your deeper self is asking for attention, boundaries, and change.
- Boundaries are sacred, not selfish. A true “yes” and a true “no” both come from alignment—and both are essential for sustainable leadership and relationships.
- You were never meant to do this alone. Many therapists and leaders carry immense responsibility in isolation. Healing, growth, and resilience deepen in community.
- The muck holds the medicine. The very experiences that feel most disorienting often become the source of your clarity, compassion, and credibility as a leader.
Resources Mentioned
- Costa Rica Retreat (Jan 31 – Feb 5, 2027):https://www.congruentpractice.com/costa-rica-retreat
- Congruent Practice Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/congruentpractice
Featured Guest: Lisa Catallo
Lisa Catallo is a therapist, coach, and group practice mentor who supports therapists and practice owners in building work that feels sustainable, aligned, and grounded. With over a decade of clinical experience and leadership in group practice ownership, she brings a unique blend of structure, relational depth, and real-world insight to the evolving landscape of therapeutic work.
Follow Lisa:
Website: https://www.grouppracticenetwork.ca
Meet the Host: Jennifer Nagel
Jennifer Nagel is a soul-centered counsellor, international facilitator, and best-selling author who has spent over two decades helping people navigate chaos, reconnect with their inner wisdom, and create meaningful, authentic lives. Deeply rooted in the Satir Model and experiential approaches to transformation, Jennifer brings a grounded presence, sharp insight, and a deep trust in the resources of the human spirit.
Her work spans continents and cultures — she has led programs and trainings in Canada, China, Kenya, Thailand, and Mexico, and currently serves as Director of Trainer Development with the Satir Institute of the Pacific. She is also senior faculty with the Banmen Satir China Management Centre.
Jennifer is the author of Magic in the Muck: Finding Grace in Chaos, co-author of Virginia Satir’s Evolving Legacy, and founder and co-author of the collaborative books Therapists Are Human Too and The Healing Journey to Authenticity, created through book-writing retreats she co-facilitated in Mexico.
Connect with the Host:
Website: www.jennifernagelcounselling.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennifernagel1/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jennifer.nagel.566
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifernagelcounselling/
If you’re longing for a place to connect with others on a soul-aligned journey of healing, growth, and transformation — come join us in the Magic in the Muck: A Soul’s Compass Community, our private Facebook group. It’s a welcoming space to explore the themes from the podcast, share your own magic-in-the-mess moments, and receive inspiration to navigate life’s changes with grace and soul.
💫 Click here to join the community https://www.facebook.com/groups/magicinthemuck
And if you’d like to receive occasional updates about new podcast episodes, upcoming retreats, and other soulful offerings, you can sign up for the Magic in the Muck email list here:
📬 Sign up to stay connected (subscribepage.io/REMTuN)
Magic in the Muck: A Soul’s Compass for Change is proud to be on the High Vibe Podcast Network. Check out Jennifer’s Gift in the Vault https://highvibepodcastnetwork.com/gifts
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