Hire with Intention, Lead with Confidence: Building a Virtual Team You Can Trust with Haley Moore

Welcome back to the Empowered to Lead podcast. This podcast is specifically for people who are have been building up their therapy practice and then started and grown a group practice. And so, a lot of the theme that we have for this summer is really once you have an established group practice, you've got different pain points as a leader and as a business owner. And so hearing stories from people across Canada as group practice owners and how they have dealt with those challenges and grown as leaders and even just to like get some solutions as you're thinking through how would this work for my group practice? And so I'm really excited to have Haley Moore on today and sharing some of her story. We're going to be focusing a bit on her hiring process and what that has looked like. A lot of us struggle to get a really good or to identify our ideal therapist, let alone find them and retain them and what all of that looks like. So excited to hear a little bit about what that process has looked like for you, Haley. Before we get started, just a little intro of yourself, where you are, a little picture of what your group practice looks like now and then we'll dig into some questions.

Hey, well, thank you so much for having me, Lisa. It's an honor to be here today. Yeah, so like Lisa said, I am Haley. I am the founder of Therapy Uninterrupted. We're a virtual group practice located in Ontario. Right now we practice virtually, but we are expanding into some walk and talk and considering an in-person space, so that's Oh, cool. fun stuff coming. But for right now, we're a team of six, about to be seven. And we have therapists that are registered psychotherapists as well as registered social workers like myself. Okay. And yeah, we we have different modalities that each therapist brings to the table, but we do serve adults, couples, individuals, and groups. Mhm. Awesome. How long has your practice been going? Yeah, so I started in solo practice in 2021, and then I transitioned into group practice officially August 2024. But technically, the year before, I incorporated and started getting everything going. But, yeah, official launch August 2024, so we're not not super old, but we're almost 2 years old. Awesome. I'm excited to have you here. One of the questions that I try to ask everybody is how would you describe yourself as a leader? I think that's a really good question. And when I was preparing for this interview, I kind of thought about it a bit more, and I really didn't know the answer, which was interesting. So when I reflected on it a bit more, I think my leadership is really around collaboration. I think I've spent a lot of my time not seeing myself as a leader, which has allowed me to actually lean heavy into getting people's opinions and, you know, being a team player. And I think that has shifted over time. I'm I'm much more able to make decisions by myself now than I was in the beginning, but I still think I'm a very collaborative person. And I think that is why I built a group, and like in the long and short of it, like I wanted to be able to collaborate. I didn't want to make decisions in a silo. I didn't want

it to be just me. So I think, you know, some of my best decisions have come from my team, where they said like, Hey, could we think about this? Could we like try that? Or like, This is great, but what about this? Like they're so creative and wonderful, and I'm very lucky to have them. I really think my job as a leader is to create an environment where my team feels valued. They feel challenged. They feel supported. They feel like they can grow. They feel like I see their strengths. They see like that I actually want them to continue to be bigger and bolder. And I think that when therapists are thriving, clients are more likely to thrive, and they feel that. So, yeah, I think my job as a leader is to really facilitate that, and yeah, my my style, I think, is mostly through collaboration.

Hmm. So I imagine that shows up in your hiring process, too.

Definitely. Yeah.

Yeah. Walk me through what your experience has been, because a lot of us start out in one way as a leader, in one way in how we bring people on, and then that shifts and changes as we grow as leaders, as and even like identifying who do I want on my team and what does that look like? How has that process looked for you?

Yeah. Yeah, so great question. I started in a very specific, intentional way. So I had I a a background in hospital social work, and in that system, I had student therapists or student social workers, sorry. So I I actually wanted to start with students, and I thought that that would be a way to again have collaboration. Like they're learning, I'm learning. It made it feel a little bit less intimidating to have someone on my team. So my first hire was a student therapist, and she came on, yeah, September 2024, so right after kind of opened all the doors, and, you know, she was a huge piece of figuring out how the systems I created worked. You know, trial and erroring really. But I think, you know, coming into that, it was really important for me to make sure that I was going to be able to choose who was going to be a part of my team, and I specifically chose someone who had time in the field. She wasn't a brand new grad that was going into her master's program. She, you know, she had experience. But really what I was looking for is maturity, being able to be a self-starter. Like this is a virtual practice. I'm not going to be holding hands. I'm not going to be troubleshooting every minute of every day. Like I needed someone who was going to be able to take care of themselves, and to trust. And obviously, trust takes time, but there is something inherent about somebody that you kind of feel like they are either a trustworthy or untrustworthy person from the off. What I didn't know then that I've now been able to pinpoint is that through that first hire and then bringing my team together, which started a few months later, so my first hire as an independent contractor was December of 2024. But what I've learned over the the time that I've been hiring is that the thing I'm really looking for is a therapist who is confident in themselves. And that seems like it's not important. And why would that matter? But I really think that that is at the

crux of everything else. Like it all kind of comes together. Like even if we think about dating, we if you boil it down, the thing we're actually looking for is confidence. We want someone who knows that they want us because they know themselves, and they know what they need, and they know what they want, and they've done that experimentation. They've been real with themselves to know that that we're we're it. Right? And that confidence translates into the job they do, and the way they hold themselves, and the way we can rely on them and trust them. And I actually think that hiring and building a team is a lot like dating in that way. You know, confidence is attractive in a therapist whether you're a client or whether you're an employer. And that ability to hold yourself in a certain way, show up in a certain way, be consistent and transparent in a certain way, like all of those things are really important having having a good therapist and having a good teammate. And that's that's what I've learned over time. The the people that I have interviewed or hired on and didn't work out, you know, those those people weren't as true to themselves. They they were either hoping that they could become what they wanted to be or hoping I could be what they wanted me to be, but it wasn't as transparent. It wasn't as confidence-ridden, and the the way that someone shows up in a room is important when you're building a team.

Yeah. It goes to everything, hey? Like, what what the consult looks like, what How do you book the next session? How do you show up as a team member? Yeah, it filters through a lot.

Yep. Absolutely. And that's the thing. If you If you are looking for a therapist, you don't want someone who's unsure of themselves, Right? You want someone who knows the value they're bringing to the table. They know how they can help you. They know how they can't help you. They're willing to say, I don't know, or, That's not me. Like that's the kind of trust, honesty, integrity that you want in a team player, and a teammate, and in a therapist. And that is why I really think it all boils down to confidence at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah.

So walk me through your hiring process. Like now that you've identified that that's a key characteristic, what what are all the steps that you take to bring on a team member? Yeah, it again builds over time. I think in the beginning I was like, Ooh, I like this person. Let's hire them. Yep.

So that that was the process in the beginning. No, obviously, kind of joking, kind of not. Even in the beginning, I had an interview process. I kind of, you know, built questions based on things that I've been asked in the past or, you know, things I've found in different areas and built a bit of an interview process. But I I have, you know, changed that over time.

Mhm.

But the actually the most important pieces are before hiring even starts. So, you know, knowing what you actually are looking for. Do you need someone to be filling evenings or weekends? Are you looking for a certain modality, a certain population, a certain, you know, type of person, a certain gender of therapist? Like, what are you actually looking for? And you need to know what you're trying to fill before you can actually set expectations of who what that person is going to be. It's, you know, I I always say this to clients, and I think it's very relevant here, too, that how do you know how to get somewhere if you don't know where the destination is? Mhm. Yeah. You're going to have a hard time finding something if you don't know where you're going. So you have to first figure out what what am I trying to grow with this? What am I What's my goal? You know, I I think it's, you know, knowing the the type of, you know, niche that you want them to go into, and maybe your group practice has a niche, maybe it's more general and you're trying to fill a certain pocket that is missing, doing some market research of, you know, what is actually out there, what it needs to be done. Mhm. But I I think it's also, you know, how long do I want to take in this hiring process? You know, if I'm if I need someone now because I have a waitlist of six months and, you know, that's that's already too late in lots of ways. Obviously, if you got to do what you got to do, but ideally you want to be for, you know, foreseeing, Yeah, in a few months, I'll probably be full myself or my team will be full and I'll need more space, or whatever it is. So it's really being methodical about when you're hiring as well as who you're trying to choose to hire. Yeah. And then also thinking about like the type of, again, person you want to have on your team. So what is your team culture? Do you know what that looks like? Do you have definitions of that? But also what is the kind

of person that you want to be spending time with, right? Like Yes. What's their communication like? Do they have good grammar and spelling? Do you want someone who's a student therapist, a new therapist, a, you know, super experienced therapist? Like what is going to be able to fit within your practice right now? What are your practice values in terms of like anti-oppressive practice, LGBTQ+ experiences? Are you more client-focused? Are you neurodiversity-affirming? Like what is the lived experience that you want your therapist to have, if any? And then also, again, on that personal side: confidence, integrity, humility, respect, transparency. You know, all of these things that you need to know before you even try to find somebody, as well as what do they need to have. Again, like do they need to know how to use an Excel sheet? Like for my practice, everyone's got to figure out how to use a Google Drive and a Google Sheet and, you know, send me an invoice every month that's all done electronically. Like, you know, we use Owl Practice, which is a virtual prac- platform, just like Jane. Like, you know, you need to be able to have some amount of tech capacity, but again virtual-I mean any practice, but especially virtually, you also have to be a self-starter. I cannot micromanage a team, so I need you to be able to do it and that's something that not every therapist wants or needs. So yeah, all those things I think are really important before you even

start. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah, in the in the coaching and in The Group Practice Connection, that's a lot of what I'm talking about too is like who is your ideal therapist as opposed to, Well, this feels really good kind of thing, right? So who do I like to lead? Who do I not like to lead? What kind of personality works well for our team culture? And then, yeah, who do What hole are they filling? And what kinds of trainings? And, yeah, it's a big consideration before you even put that posting out.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. And again, like you you have tons of training on this because we don't know how to do this. This isn't something that we intuitively learn as a therapist. We know how to say like, Yeah, gut check: do I like this person? But that's kind of it.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah, so I think So that is an important part of it, too. You do need to like them. So what I've started to do more recently in the last year or so is whenever I meet with somebody that's potentially going to join my team in any capacity, I do a a 15-minute kind of meet and greet. So I'm not asking about their clinical skills, I'm not really asking about them so much as a a team member, but more just as a a therapist as person. So it's give me a live version of your resume, send me your resume, tell me why you want to be here, what do you expect of this role, like what do you actually think is going to happen within this, what's your career plan, your trajectory. And what you're looking for in that time is, a, it's very non-committal. 15 minutes, everyone has 15 minutes. You're not wasting your time, you're not wasting their time, it's really just a good vibe check. But you're also looking for do they want the same thing you are looking for, you know, like do they want some Do they want to be here long term? Do they want a boss? You know, do they want to do their own work, or do they want to have everything done for them? I'm just at a stage now that I'm going to be hiring an administrator, but that wasn't a thing that I could offer people beforehand. So if they have been in a group practice before that had all these administrative things done for them, that that's all things my therapists do, right? So there's, you know, what are their expectations? Can you meet them? And what are your expectations? Can they meet them? And you're not going to know everything within that 15 minutes, but you're going to have a pretty good idea just based on some questions about, you know, what do you expect? What do you see yourself doing in 5 years? Like you at least have a good idea of the collaboration that would be possible within this meeting. Yeah. I think another thing too is this is your 15-minute free consult with your therapist, or the potential

therapist, right? What would a client feel in that time period? If you feel uncomfortable, a client will feel uncomfortable, right? And I think it's it's an interesting kind of, yeah, process. looking to Do they show up professionally? professional, yes.

Yep. Do they know how to click the right button? Yep. Yep.

Yep. Yep. Yes. Yep.

Exactly.

And like that that I really encourage everyone to trust your gut. If your gut says something is off, you're right. And that's okay. Like, 15 minutes you're going to know something's wrong, and that's okay. Like, it's just not a good fit, and it doesn't have to make sense logically, and I think that's why we need to really buy into our intuition as therapists. We're good at this. This is a thing we're good at: trusting our gut, knowing our gut is right. We know how to work with people. We know when people are you know, our kind of people, and if it's not there, like you can't train empathy or warmth or self-knowledge, you know, confidence. Like you can't train those things. You can train modality. You can train in systems. You can train in operations. Like you can't train the kind of person they are. Yes. Yeah. And that's just the truth. Okay. Yeah, so that that's kind of stage one. Okay. So, you do the screening, and then you decide, yep, they can come for an interview. Mhm. Okay. Yeah, and that's also a two-part process. Okay. Yeah. So, the first interview, I usually bring in one of my other supervisors on my team to sit in with me so that it's not just my opinion. I think that's also an important thing, to have team members. They have to also be a good fit to some degree. Mhm. And And it's just good to have a a second opinion.

Yeah, I was talking with an employment lawyer, and he actually said like it's it's wise to have somebody else in the room. Even just like you sometimes have rose-colored glasses on, Mhm. and to have somebody else's input. Also talked about like having a rating scale for each question, which I really appreciate because in the moment you're responding to how they're answering, but then as you leave, you might not remember it entirely. So to have another voice, to have another checkpoint, super important.

Yeah. Yeah, I think the rating is a great idea. That's That's why I do ask every person the same questions Yes. so that I can Yeah. come back to it and be like, Okay, this was a good answer. This was a great answer. What is the difference? Yes. Mhm. I always take notes during the interview and I let people know that, like, I'm not going to remember all of these things and we need to talk about it after, so I'm going to take notes. Mhm. Folks usually don't care. That's fine. You don't have to remember everything. Yeah, yeah, the the rating scale sounds like a a great addition that I don't personally do, but I think it could be helpful, for sure. But that that interview you're looking for, what do they, you know, what do they actually have? What skills do they have? What have they been doing? What have they not been doing? I always ask, but what do, you know, people usually get wrong about you? I think it's a

That's That's a good question. I haven't heard that one.

I really enjoy what kind of answers you get from that.

Yes. And

I think it's it's kind of like the what are your weaknesses, but it's more of an interpretation of your weaknesses, Mhm. Yes. which is interesting. I always do a case study Mhm. just to kind of get their initial kind of clinical skills and what they Mhm. know. I talk I ask questions about ethics and diversity, difference opinions and values to clients, Okay. self-awareness around mistakes, what they like in supervision, what are their professional boundaries, populations they don't want to work with and why, Mhm. how do they take care of themselves, what do they think they can do better with, right? Like these I think are all really important questions for sustainability. Yes. You don't learn a whole lot about their clinical skills in this interview, though, is what I've kind of found. You learn about them as a therapist and as a person, and a little bit about their clinical background, but I I've started to do a second interview more recently to actually do like a a bit of a roleplay with that therapist. Yes. So, I'll do like a intake session with a potential client. I'll give them a little blurb about what that client is coming to session with, like a you know what they would get in a consult, and then we do a yeah, we do a roleplay of an interview. I ask them to do a treatment plan, all that.

I love that. I think that's such an important part. We used to do like they would be in another room and they would have one of our therapists or an admin in there, and we would watch from the laptop, and everybody was like, Oh my goodness, I'm terrified! And I so value the fact that you are that intentional about how who are you bringing onto the team, right? Cuz the clinical part is huge, and so they can really pour it on in the interview part and sound really lovely, and then sit in a room with someone or even with you in that and just bomb it, or, Okay, these are some points that we could work on, kind of thing. Yeah, I love that piece. Yeah. Yeah, and

it it is important. Both are important, right? Yeah. And sometimes I will give feedback in those interviews too. I'll say like, Hey, yeah, this was great, and I think, you know, for you know, for example, I interviewed someone recently that has more short-term. She's done a lot of short-term therapy, which is great, and not something that we have on our team, so it's an asset. And in that intake, she was told it was going to be long-term, and she was still doing very solution-focused, right? And I you know, I pointed that out, like, Hey, what about this? And she handled the feedback beautifully, right? And that's also a skill. Can you take constructive feedback effectively? Right? So, those kinds of things are also helpful if you can, not that you're looking for mistakes or things, you know, like that, but you can kind of test the waters. Yeah. But you know, like you said, Lisa, we're looking for punctuality. Are you being professional? Are you being grateful? Are you, you know, thanking me for the time? You know, I I I love when someone will follow up with an email after. That's a gold star experience for me. And not because I'm like, Oh, you must thank me for my time. I think it's just a formality. I think it's Something that just makes it feel like you care about the role? Yes. Or respectful? People that care. Yeah, it's respectful, exactly.

Mm-hmm.

I want someone who cares, right?

Yes.

So things that I look about or I think about afterwards, like when I'm reflecting on do I really want to hire this person, would I want them to be my therapist?

Yes. Would

I feel comfortable with them? And not because they're necessarily like my, you know, they're not going to help me with my issues, but would would I be okay with them in a room?

Mm-hmm.

You know, would I go for lunch with them? Would I spend an hour with them just for fun? Right? They don't have to be your friend, but they do have to be someone that's pleasant to be around. You know, if I think about them representing my company, would that make me nervous or would I be totally okay with that? Yes. You know, if I think about them meeting with one of my clients that I really enjoy while I'm out of office or if I'm on a leave, would I be okay with that or would I be nervous? You know, if they're in the break room with your team, how would they fit in? Yeah. Do you want them to accept the offer that you are going to give them? Right? Like, Yes. You know, the best hire isn't always the best therapist. It's not necessarily the one with the most experience. It's someone who's a good therapist, a good fit, and really wants to be there.

Mm. Yeah. And that consideration, too, of like the ideal client that is coming to our group practice and the personality around that, and now how are you going to fit? And sometimes we're like, Oh, well, I really love them. You know, a little different personality or a little different ideal client. Does that actually fit with where our practice is going? Because if I'm bringing in 50 new clients and you're not a good fit, you might be lovely, but that's not Yeah. So testing out personality and even the fit in there with you as a leader and with your team and clients, eh?

And that's why it's really important to know what you're looking for first.

Yes, yeah.

Like if you know the gap you're trying to fill, then it's going to be much easier to make sure that that therapist would actually fill that gap that you're trying to fill, and not like, Oh, I like them. They're a good therapist, so let's bring them on. But it doesn't meet any of the parameters I've already decided I need. Well, yeah, that's that's a bad leadership decision. Yeah. And that's, you know, when you have to put that leadership hat on and know that you're making a decision for the longevity of your practice, and being on the wrong therapist is a bad move. Period. Even if they're nice people. Yep. So, they make it through the interview. Then what's the next step? The next step after that, so I would send them an offer of I think I call it an independent contractor engagement offer. Okay. Because I'm very careful around employment language, as in not offering employment. An independent contractor. But yeah, I'll send them an offer letter, which kind of just outlines like, Hey, this would be your split. This would be when I'd want you to start. You would need certain things to be able to come join the team, so like the mandatory things, like you need to be a registered professional within the CRPO or the College of Social Workers. You need to hold professional liability insurance. You need to be in good standing. So, those things are within the offer letter. And then that I kind of just explain that you'll also have to agree to the agreement, the contractor agreement that would be sent. But this is not the agreement. This is just an offer that if you choose to move forward, we would then go from there. It has a few different things as well just around legalities. That's that's generally what the letter says. And then I ask them to accept the offer, and if they do, great, then I would send them the contract. They would have some time to review it, of course, ask me any questions. I always offer to meet with them if they want to go over the

main parameters of the offer, or of the contract, sorry. Of course, the offer as well if they had questions, but that hasn't usually happened.

Yeah. And

then, yeah, if they accept the contract, great, then we we hire them. They're onboarded. Yeah.

I actually really like it when somebody comes back and has questions about the contract, cuz they actually read it and not just like, okay, let's sign and and get started and I don't know what I'm agreeing to.

Yeah, yeah. And to be honest, when I've had more negative experiences with hiring, that is usually what had happened. You know, even though I said some things in the interviews or they had all of it in the contract, there was some surprise somehow about what I was expecting of them, and it does reflect on, oh okay, so you didn't read that. You didn't actually You weren't listening, and or you didn't read it, or you just heard what you wanted to hear, like there's something there's a discrepancy there. So I do think I I totally agree with that. Like having questions is helpful. Yeah, ask questions. It's not It doesn't make me think that you're questioning me or my authority or my business. It makes me think that you care, that you want to be thorough, that you want to make sure this works for you to not have to let me down later if it doesn't work, right? Like I'd rather all the questions for sure.

Yes. Yeah. I am a huge proponent for hire slow, fire fast, and your process really fits with that, of like even in the consideration of who you want to hire before you even start, and when do we need them to start? And so that's often a question. I would say once you or the therapist on your team or a specific niche are 80% full, that's when you start looking and starting this process, because you're going to take your time and make sure that this is a good fit. It's not like, Okay, now we need someone today kind of thing, and so screw yourself over by bringing on the wrong person. So they've gone through all of that process. They signed it. Do you have an onboarding process as well? Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. So that that's what I took that first year before, like between incorporation and hiring on my first student, like that is what I built. Obviously, refined it over time, but yeah, they they do an onboarding, again, all virtual. I usually do try to meet them in person for like at an orientation day per se. I like to get a vibe, get to know each other a little bit better, and just have access to me for all the questions they may have. That may shift to our administrator at some point in time, but we'll see. But yeah, it's onboarding. So they get an Excel sheet that's all shared with me, so I can see their progress, I can see what they're working on. Again, they can send in any questions. They go through policies and procedures that I've built. They, you know, create profiles for things like Psychology Today and different platforms that we're using. They onboard with our EHR system. They review different things that I might expect of them, like they invoice monthly and different things like that. They get to know our system, so explore the Google Drive, explore our clinical training documents, explore our resources, what is actually available to you. And then I make sure that, yeah, everything's kind of up to date. So we get headshots done, because I I do like consistency and everyone having the same, like, background. So, I always, like the corporation will pay for for headshots for the therapists. And so we we usually take about a month to do all the onboarding before they actually start doing clinical work. So, you know, they they have a certain time period to kind of complete all these things. My my Excel sheet has a due date on it. And in that time period, I'm advertising for them, I'm, you know, putting it out on social media and our newsletter, all that stuff. And the goal is to build a little bit of a waitlist for them to have everything in place and have all the training under their belt, like be good to go by that start

date, which is usually a month after their initial contract starts.

Yeah.

So that's that's kind of how I've organized it now. Again, first time my student came on, it was doing everything after the fact, and she didn't have a client for, I think, a month and a half after starting, and that's obviously not ideal. So I learned from there of, Okay, we need to Okay, if it took a month and a half, this is good information. Let's start a month and a half early.

Yeah.

Yeah, like they create their own bios, I kind of give them a template of what I need from them in terms of creation of biographies for our website and things like that, but I do think it's important for them to have their own touch, their own words, and it's yeah. I think it's it's a collaborative process. Again, everything is collaborative, but I think over time, I've definitely made it pretty organized that it's straightforward. They know what they need to do, they know what's expected of them, they know what it's due by, I kind of created a cadence so there is enough time within that month to do everything they need to do, and then, yeah, they let me know if there is changes or hiccups or things that they don't understand or more time needed or whatever, whatever the case may be. I love it. I love what you

have come up with, and I think there's a mixture of people who are listening. There's people who are intentional, and they're like, Yeah, tracking with Hayley, I've got all these systems. And then you've got other people who would call themselves an accidental group practice owner, and so, Now I need to create the systems. And so, thank you for sharing your process with this. And for the people who are listening, I hope you hear some pieces in there that can fit for being intentional about who you bring on. I think it's so important for all of for clients, for the therapist, and for us as group practice owners to have a sustainable business. And taking that slow and being intentional and having the processes laid out, everybody knows what to expect from the process, and too, hey, there's clarity, and that sets the tone for what's it going to be like to work at this group practice, too. Mhm. Mhm.

And that's the thing. Like you said, intentionality leads to, a, no surprises, for the most part. Obviously, life isn't always predictable. So, no no surprises, no like, Oh, you want me to do that? Oh, I didn't, you know, like that's what I try to avoid. But also there's there's no panic. It's not, Oh, my gosh, I need to do all of these things as soon as possible so that I can get clients, because I need to make money. Like there's a understanding that you will not have a full schedule for at least six months. So expect that, right? Like there Yeah. Again, I I want them to know what's reasonable to expect as well. I I don't want to promise or overpromise things I can't do, and it's still never guaranteed, like you know, you you won't be full, for sure, pretty much within six months, but you still may not be full 100% at a year from now, like fluctuate, there are tons of reasons, and that's why I'm I am very intentional about continuing to be creative in ways that I build caseloads as well. So like I mentioned in the beginning, like walk and talk therapy. That was one of my independent contractors who said, like, Hey, what do you think about this?

Hmm,

interesting. So, you know, did some research, created a policy, created some consent forms, and we're gonna launch it soon. Like, it's just That's awesome. you know, but that kind of stuff has to evolve over time, and I I mean, you know, there is a lot of training and mentoring involved in being a group practice owner with new therapists for sure, but also even with your your long-standing therapists, they still need, you know, your your time, your energy. They're not just a money-maker or a a passive income. Like you you are still required, because that's why they're here with you. Yeah. You. For your knowledge.

Yep, I would say that being a group practice owner is not passive income. It gets a little more passive as you grow and learn and step into leadership, but this isn't something that you just kind of sit and watch go by, even if you've got all the systems and structures in place. There's still you as part of that component in there. Thank you so much, Haley. It's been so good to learn from you, to hear some of your experience. If somebody wanted to check out your practice or even just connect with you, how would they do that?

Yeah, well, again, thank you for having me, Lisa. It's been so nice to chat with you and and share my experience. I hope it helps somebody out there that's trying to figure it out for themselves. If they want to find me, or if anyone wants to find me in my practice, it's www.therapyuninterrupted.ca. find on on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook @TherapyUninterrupted.

Awesome. Thank you so much, and thank you for those of you who are listening in today. I hope that you're walking away with a couple of nuggets about how you might tweak your hiring process and onboarding as well in there, and that you're going to listen in next week and hear the experience of another group practice owner, and just know you are not alone as you do this. And so, all of Haley's information will be in the show notes, and again, thank you so much for taking the time today.