How to Build Wealth Without Giving Your Power Away to Money | Tamar Hermes

Welcome to the Limitless Women podcast. Our mission is to

help women business owners like you grow profitable businesses

and actualize your opportunities to serve and give to yourself

and others. Here's your host, the founder of Limitless Women,

Laura Gisborne.

All right, my friends, welcome back to the

Limitless Women podcast. Today, I'm really excited to introduce

you to a good friend of mine, Tamar Hermes. And Tamar, you and

I have been friends for a while. I was trying to figure out

exactly what the year was when we were talking the other day on

the phone. But what I want people to know about you is that

you really are a a self-made millionaire. You're someone who

has started from humble beginnings, and often because

you look so put together when we see you now, I forget that part,

right? But when I read your book, which is another thing I

want more people to know about, you know, your book and your

story, you're one of us, right? You're one of these women who

didn't grow up with a silver spoon in your mouth, you were

really smart and savvy, and what I love about you is your ability

to ask better questions than most people. You lean in with a

wild curiosity, and I think that's probably been part of

your superpowers as an investor and as a leader, and as a woman,

and as a wife, and as a mother. You're all these delicious

things. So, we have your traditional bio, but I want my

audience and my girlfriends to know you as the leader and the

role model that you are to me in my life.

Thank you so much, Laura. Thank you for having me,

and I'm so grateful to be here with you and to pour into your

listeners and to share about the world of money, which is it is

something, isn't it? You know, it's it's juicy, it's fun, and

it's also complex and can be quite stressful for us. And so I

hope that by the end of this podcast the listeners feel more

at ease and more excited about what's possible at any level

that they're at with their financial and wealth-building

journey.

Yeah, thank you, sweetie. It's so generous of

you. And I would say there's another piece that I love about

you, and that is the way that you give, right? The way that

you can contribute. And and it's one of the things that we face

in Limitless Women as a philanthropy-first organization

that I know you and I share a heart for this in the early

days, right? Like it wasn't about when I get there, I'm

going to give. It's like the the process of how giving causes

growing, and you're one of my girlfriends who I just know is,

you know, out there doing listening for how you can

contribute not only with your talents and your time, but also

with your tithes. So thank you for the generous donations that

you've made on behalf of our community, and then for all the

other communities and the schools that you build, and all

the beautiful work that you do in the world. So so thank you

for

that.

Yeah. Yeah,

and I I think you always hit the nail on the head

when you talk about giving, which is giving in a way is

selfish because I get so much when I give, and a lot of people

ask me, Well, why do you continue to do Women Growing

Wealth? Why are you on this mission when you don't really

need to be doing this? And it's honestly because when we're not

in the world of contribution, when we're not participating—and

of course, all your listeners, many business owners and

entrepreneurs, and women who are passionate about being of

service in the world—and this is also the ability when we're

generous about what we're what we're able to contribute as as

nurturers, as women, as leaders. So, so thank you for the

opportunity to give.

Yeah, thank you. And it's just again, I know when

we started Limitless Women, and I just was praying to be shown,

and I just had no idea what it was going to be. It was really

my girlfriends. I was talking to another friend from California

earlier today, and just you know, again, who we've been

friends for at least 10 years, and I just was the they it's my

girlfriends who came together and said, Okay, this is what we

can do. You know, that first event where I thought, Gosh, if

we could just if we could just raise $10,000. I thought, if I

could just get 100 women in the room, you know, my whole my

whole plan for how it was going to work is not at all how it

worked. God had another plan. We had 50 women in the room, but

the end of three days, we had raised $35,000, and I was in a

puddle. I mean, it was just so so so grateful to my

girlfriends. So thank you for being my girlfriend. Thank you

for being the leader you are. And let's talk about business.

Talk a little bit about what you're here to talk about with

your money, my friend. All right. So tell me starting, you

know, I'm not going to make you tell me like, When I was a

little girl, you know, that story, but tell me about that

first investment. I think I find that fascinating when I was

reading your book, because I've known you forever, it feels like

in some ways, and then I've known you, you know, probably at

least a decade in this body. But I feel like in the when I was

reading your book, I was really like curious about that. I was

curious about your courage and how you chose to make that first

investment and why. You know, give us a little background

there, and tell us how that all started.

Yeah, I believe that we sum up courage when we

hit a place in our lives where we just think the alternative is

not is not an option for

us.

And that was really where I was when I was an

executive in television when I was 28, and I had a decent job,

but I kept thinking, well, if I don't work at this job, I won't

have any money coming in, and I don't like this feeling. I want

more freedom. So how can I do that? And I just searched and

searched and searched, and I saw there was an opportunity that if

I were to buy real estate, and in this case I bought a duplex,

so I had someone that could that could pay part of my rent

because I had a a tenant, and I just started thinking, you know,

if I can do this, then maybe this is a path that will work.

And so when I decided to buy the property, it was really a matter

of, if this is going to be the life that I have, where I'm just

going to have to work every day for the rest of my life in order

to live the life that I want, I've got to take a chance on

something I don't understand to get to somewhere else. And so

that was really the journey and the risk that I took at that

time. And I have to say that throughout my life, I believe

that I've taken really great calculated risks on investments,

and sometimes I've made mistakes. And sometimes things

happen that we don't anticipate, and part of that is being able

to be in the dance. So, yes, that courage was summed up from

a place of knowing in my soul that if 20 years went by, I did

not want to be in the same situation that I was at that

time.

Yeah, you already had that figured out at

such a young age.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And yeah. Yeah, and I think the piece that

you're bringing up that is is really important, it was I was

putting on my makeup for you today, I was thinking about

this, about risk, right? And how risk is so interesting. When I

dance in rooms with men, it's a very different conversation than

when I dance in rooms with women. And so I just am

fascinated by why women are so afraid often, and how And I

think it's how we're wired, right? You know, men are wired

for action, and you're a mother of son and daughters like I am.

I have two sons and a daughter, and you have one son and two

daughters. I get that right?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. So, boys and girls, we get the idea that,

you know, they're just wired a little bit differently. And I

think it's fascinating how, as women, we need to, many women,

and I and I'm I'm not a typical woman when it comes to these

things, but most women spend a lot of time just analyzing and

wondering about all the things that could go wrong and just

spending so much time before they actually take the action

versus where men will often take the action and then take the

consequences. You know, I'm I'm curious about in your own life

because you started at such a young age, what are your

thoughts and what are your experiences about building the

muscles for risk?

I believe that like anything that we want to

do, we need to continually walk through doors that don't feel

comfortable. The thing about risk is that, you know, you buy

one property and then you got to buy the second, and the risk

comes up again. It's the same thing with business. We're doing

our businesses, and then we've got certain obstacles. Do we

hire these two employees? Do we spend this money on inventory?

Do we invest in this marketing program? Do we invest in the

coaching? All of the questions that come up, and I think that

it's it it it is a constant question that we need to ask

ourselves that goes back to the original question that I framed

to begin with: Am I going to be okay if I never take a chance?

Am I going to be okay if I don't take this risk? We all know that

risk equals growth. It's also really hard, and I get that, and

I get why why women get scared, because I'm scared, and I'm sure

sometimes you're scared.

Oh, absolutely.

And I just keep knowing that when I'm when I lay

down to rest after this this season in my life, I want to

make sure that I really feel like I didn't leave anything on

the table where I just thought that there was something that I

couldn't do, or there was something that could really take

me out of the game. And if you start looking at it that way,

then you start to look at the risk is just part of the flow of

life, and the setbacks are part of the flow of life, and we just

need to keep learning and growing from that. And I just

think, ultimately, if I have to ask myself, would I rather have

taken chances and gone walked through doors that were dark and

scary, knowing that I didn't know the outcome, and knowing

that a lot of times it doesn't turn out the way that I want.

Correct. Or

Lots of times.

Correct. Lots of times. Or would I rather just be

safe and just keep living a secure, easy life? And I think

that there's a dance in there somewhere, but I do think that

the life of adventure and risk is one that is worth pursuing

because it's if you think about it, I mean, we wouldn't really

have anything in this world if people didn't take risks, if

Steve Jobs didn't think, Wow, I wonder if we could have a phone

in our hand. You know, innovators. Yeah, I mean,

there's so many and there's so many women, amazing innovators.

I mean, even simple ones like like Sara Blakely, who invented

the Spanx, you know, and made a billion dollar company, but

like, you know, us ladies, we needed to not see those those

panty lines. So if you think about it, you know, we all have

to walk through doors and we're all on our journey, and so

that's that's kind of how I look at it. I look at it like, what's

the worst thing that can happen? You know, really. What's the

worst thing that can happen? And

will I still be able to pick myself up? And it's

one of the things that I think about. So, couple things. First

of all, I don't know that everybody knows that risk equals

growth. I don't know that people know that, right? That's not my

experience. When I I mean, I'm a person who's so risk inviting.

I'm I'm the opposite of risk-averse. I'm like not even

risk tolerant. I'm like, Bring it on, right? So I'm I know that

I'm an outlier for most of my family and friends, including

all my kids. They think I'm nuts, right? But I'm I'm I'm

down with it. I think my girlfriends that I'm in this

conversation about what it takes to engage in our next level as a

as humans, right? Like it it requires us, like you said, to

get uncomfortable. It requires to go through those doors. And I

always think about the story, when you say this, I think about

the story of Scott being in the hospital, you know, when he was

going in for his first heart surgery, and they were pretty

sure this was the end, right? And he was 56 at the time, 65

today, so the spoiler alert: he made it, thank God. But just the

fact that as as they were saying, you know, Get yourself

prepared, he was saying, I couldn't have done better. I

wouldn't There's nothing I regret. And I don't know how

many humans really can be at peace at the end, right? Now,

now this is not a conversation about death. We have a whole

another podcast about grieving we just did with Meryl Russo.

That's kind of amazing if you haven't listened to that. But

I'd say, you know, I love this about you, about your awareness

as a young person and as a mature person that you don't

want to get to the end and feel like you didn't do what you

could do.

Correct. Yeah,

that's cool. That's different.

And sometimes, yeah. And and and I wanted to

make sure in my life that's still going, I hope for a little

while longer, God willing,

yes, thank you, is

is being as courageous as I can in terms of

what I want this journey to look like for myself. And those are

questions that we ask ourselves over and over, and I'm sure

listeners are thinking, Gosh, you know, yeah, I ask myself

those questions. And sometimes we do take a step back, and

sometimes we do pivot, and sometimes we do go forward. But

the truth is to be honorable. Today I was I was just having

lunch with a friend, and she was talking about how can you be in

flow. And I loved the question because it reminded me that, you

know, even when we're building businesses or we're investing or

doing anything where there's risk, what puts us into a state

where we really feel like we're contributing, and where we enjoy

the process, and where even where I might look at some

things that Laura does and think, Oh, that looks so

difficult, and I don't know that I'd want to do all of that.

Like, you know, Laura puts on, you know, what, 12 events a

year? And I'm thinking, I do like two events, and I'm I'm

good, right? But she's in flow. She loves the hostessing. She

loves bringing the women together, you know. So you you

know, so it's kind of like we go back to choose your hard, and

don't guilt yourself out if your hard's not 12 events a year,

cause it's not for everyone. And instead Yeah, well, and then let

me interrupt here, because I think that's

actually so important for another piece that I see women

really taking themselves out of the game, and I think it's going

to tie in to where we're going in the conversation around

money, right? Like, this piece around comparing. Now, I do not

host 12 events a year, not even close. I host one conference a

year and usually a couple of retreats, one of them being the

flow retreat, right? Which is all around not just cash flow,

but what does it look like for your time to be in flow? What

does it look like for you to have your energy in flow, right?

And we're this is not a community of women who are woke

and broke. I mean, these are women who are serious about

business, and at the same time, we are friends and daughters and

mothers and partners. You know, we've got a lot going on in our

schedule, every one of us. So, I think what I want to move to to

more in that conversation is is how important it is for us not

to compare what it looks like on the outside from somebody else,

because we don't know. And what we really, if we want to compare

anything, if we have to do the comparison game, and I would

love that we never had to do it, but if we had to do it, I want

us all to compare backwards, right? It's all I have to do is

look back to my first job at McDonald's when I made $4.13 an

hour, I think. Somewhere in that ballpark. And after two years of

being like the best employee on the team, I was a shift manager

and I was making like $4.37 an hour, right? So when I'm trying

to compare, I'm like, Oh, girl, look how far you've come, right?

I mean, that's it's kind of a cool thing with Virginia Slims

cigarette commercials when we were kids. Look how far you've

come, baby, or something like that. I want you to talk a

little bit about how a woman knows what's right for her when

it comes to her financial decisions. It's like where

should she start having awareness? Right, FLOW is

financial literacy for women. That's what that F L O W, right?

That's the whole piece, financial literacy. Where does a

woman in your world start to gain the confidence and the

muscles to be able to take the risks?

So, I always talk about what I call the enough

number, and your enough number is your number that you need to

be financially free. So, and I have my enough number

calculator, which will be a gift that you can you can calculate

your enough number in under two minutes at

getyourenoughnumbernow.com, and it'll be in the notes. The point

is with your enough number is that what you're doing is you're

giving yourself a target. Now, you're not asking the full

picture questions of like everything you want to do in

your life, but you are asking, what does it cost for me to live

comfortably, and what is it, what does my dream life cost me

to live? And inevitably, what we find once this number's

calculated is that it's generally not as high as you

think it is.

Exactly, so much less than most people think.

Yeah, and so that's a really important

realization because most of us are running through life without

a target, and we're also kind of in a scarcity zone because we're

thinking, if I can just get this much, then this this can happen,

or or if I can just do this, then that, instead of thinking,

Okay, this is my target, and then how can I work backwards

from that target? or How can I start living into that target?

Because, you know, we we our threshold with money, if I start

saying, I need a million dollars, right? If I say that,

but I really lean into it, then, and I have that target, and I

know what that what that money is for, and I have the use for

it, I have my contribution buckets, and all my other

buckets, then it makes it a lot easier to hit that target. And

so that really is the first place in terms of the blueprint

to freedom that I teach to become financially free, is

knowing your number, then learning how to keep it. You got

to know how to keep your money, that's the other thing. You make

money, and you and you get rid of all of it, then how can you

grow it? How can you create that that nest egg that can start

working for you? Because if money comes in and money goes

out, then there's no funnel to to make that work. So you got to

keep it, then you got to know how to grow it, you got to know

how to protect it, because we have 70% of all wealth is lost

in second generation, 90% is gone in the third generation. We

don't teach these generations how to move forward with money,

and a lot of people that make money aren't also protecting

their assets properly. So we want to look at that, and then

the last one, of course, is enjoy it. You want to enjoy it,

so you want to make sure that you're when you go on vacation,

like I'm leaving for holiday to Alaska, that I actually can be

at that vacation and not be worrying about a bunch of other

things. And that can happen, right? Because we always have

things going on, especially, you know, as when we're creatives

and we want to be in the world and things don't work the way we

want them to work necessarily. So being in the enjoyment mode

is really important.

So good. And so what I heard, just to put a pin

on some of those things, is the difference between We're so

focused on making money, and often we're not paying attention

to how much are we keeping, right? That's a whole reason why

why entrepreneurs and why business owners have a different

tax structure because we get to employ people, we get to provide

solutions in the marketplace. I mean, there's a whole reason why

all that goes on beyond, but we as founders have a

responsibility to learn how to keep more of what we make,

right? If you haven't read Robert Kiyosaki, Rich Dad Poor

Dad, read that book first. The next piece is how do we grow

what we have, which is really your playground, right? You help

women not only get comfortable, it's so much more than mindset

with their sufficiency and understanding their number, but

also how do they grow their investments and protect their

investments. I think that's a big deal. You know, thinking

about where Scott and I are right now, he's retired. I I

think this is as much retired I'm getting ready to turn 60. I

think this probably is retired as I'm ever going to be. You

know, I just feel like, and what is actually the number and how

do we not give our power away to money? I think that's another

piece, too. When the the education that you provide,

Tamar, gives women an opportunity to look at their

numbers not from a scary place, but from an empowered place. You

know, and what what have you learned over the last I I don't

know, I'm trying to think about us being together in Colorado, I

think was before COVID, right? Like 2019, how far you've come

in your own leadership and teaching? What have you learned

as you've been working with women over this last decade

about money, around their mindset? What have you learned

as far as the systems that you've developed? Like what what

are the things that people need to know besides I know I need to

make more, keep more, and grow it, what kind of systems can we

use?

Well, okay, is is there there is, you know, there

there is the components, and then the systems you want to use

are the are are I would say they're they're more the systems

get drawn into the components around what your what you're

building. So like if you have your business, how much money is

in there, and then you have a certain allocation toward your

investments, toward which kind of investments. I'm a huge

proponent of real estate, and of buying properties that you own

and operate and you know or that you hire somebody to do. There's

there's variances on that. But one of the systems, I would say,

but one of the arms inside of that system is to start, you

know, building your asset column, is putting money in the

inside of the inside of the the stock accounts. And also

understanding the way tax works. So that's a big one that we

didn't really touch on. That's another Yeah, that's another

component of the system, and the reason that that is is because

it is our our most expensive business partner is the is what

we pay in taxes. Cause most of us, if you live in California,

you're paying 50%. If you're a W-2, you don't have write-offs

necessarily, so you're, you know, you're really just your

paycheck just comes back into about half of whatever you're

making. And so there's a lot of variables inside of there. So

really what we're doing, the system is really like a dance.

Like the first thing I say with the system is get I like to have

all my money in one place where I can see in a snapshot. I use

Monarch. I like it a lot. I for a long time I just used

spreadsheets because there was nothing I liked, but Monarch is

really great now. So and then you can just see everything.

And, you know, you really want to have, you know, calculations

and see like, okay, this is making this much for me, this is

making that much. It gets, you know, I mean, there is there is

a devised way to look at it, but but but the most important thing

is to understand the components of, you know, inflation, which

is going to eat away at your money, taxes, which is going to

eat away at your money, and, you know, how can you if you

mitigate taxes, let's say I'm paying 50% in taxes, but all of

a sudden I'm paying 30% in taxes, well, that's a lot more,

and then my investments, you know, that's the other bucket.

So we're looking at all of those.

Well, and I think I'm I'm going to reduce

this really down to the ridiculous, just my own life,

because I'm a big fan of not having to-do lists and having

everything that's important to me in my calendar, right? So if

you open my calendar, my first appointment each day is with

God, my next appointment is to look at my numbers, and that's a

recurring appointment across my calendar every day. And it's not

complicated, right? I love that you have a system, so it's like

a dashboard that you really like, that are bringing together

probably multiple accounts in different places you can look at

things. At a bare minimum, you can check in with your bank

account, right? If you've got an account, you can check in with

that account and see what's coming in and what's going out.

And then, and I think this is the piece where we learn to make

money the easy part, right? When we stop giving away our power,

stop making things complicated, or I'm not ready, right? So many

women are like, I'm going to take myself out of the game

because I'm not ready yet. You're ready for where you are

right now. So learning these habits around embracing your

numbers, paying attention to your numbers, that which we

track grows. I want you to think about it like a plant. If you

didn't water your plant, you never looked at it, it's for

sure going to die, right? But if you just give it a little bit of

water, and if you're like Mr. Gisborne, you're out there

talking to them, the trees are growing, it's really beautiful,

right? That's what he does in his retirement, gets up and

talks to his trees. You know, that's the piece, right? Like

where is your energy going and how are you embracing this

opportunity? You know, I think that's the other piece I'd like

to say is that women who are fortunate enough to be on

technology wherever they're hearing this are way ahead of a

lot of women on the planet. So just the mere conversation that

we're having is a conversation of privilege, and not from a

place to feel guilty about, but to say, Okay, how do I be a good

steward of this time? You know, that poverty is at an all-time

low. All hunger is at an all-time low. That doesn't mean

there isn't still problems. It doesn't mean there are still

wars, but it's a really fascinating time to be alive on

the planet, and how we choose to embrace this opportunity is

going to be is really going to be the legacy of our future.

Yeah. So, I want more women to know how to work with what they

have, and I feel like you have great systems around this. So,

we've got the calculator as one piece that you're giving us. I

know you had some other things that we could access besides

your book. I mean, I always want to make sure women know all the

ways they can connect with you, Tamar. I feel like you offer so

much goodness, and you've got your classes, and you've got

your retreats, and you've got your masterminds. You've got a

lot of different ways women can come in wherever they are. I

want them to feel comfortable to know that you really can have

money be the easy part when you start embracing it, right, and

start start working with it instead of giving your power

away to it.

Absolutely. Absolutely, that's a great way

to look at it, and yes, The Millionaireist Mentality: A

Professional Woman's Guide to Building Wealth Through Real

Estate is the book that I wrote, and you can absolutely look at

that. I will frequently, if you're on once you're on my

mailing list, I frequently will do masterclasses on the

Blueprint to Freedom, and that's a great way. I have a podcast,

Women Growing Wealth. That's a great way. So, there's many,

many ways to access and to be in the conversation around money I

think is really important, because I think that most of the

time we do have a lot of components in the air,

especially as we start to accumulate money. And so it's

important to understand how we can compartmentalize and ground

and put money in different spaces and systems and having

them do different things for us, while we're also recognizing

that you know that we are taking in a new level of abundance and

a new level of of energy in terms of, you know, how much

money can come in. And so that is all part of the process of

what I'm really working with with women, because what I found

was that when they just learn the tactical, sometimes the

mindset stuff was lost, and sometimes if you just do the

mindset stuff, you don't know what to do with your money, and

it really doesn't really lend itself. So that's why both

components are married in.

Beautiful. So, we get the internal game and the

external game, both.

Right.

Yeah, really beautiful, Sweetie. I really

appreciate you making time today. I know you are on your

way out, like literally getting ready to go and travel. Is there

anything else you'd like to leave us with? I just so

appreciate you bringing your generosity, bringing your

wisdom. We'll make sure that our ladies have all the ways to

connect with you. I hope you join us again at another live

event tomorrow. I'd love to have you come in and lead. Tell us

what else you want to wrap up with today.

What I really love for women to know is that you

can have the money you want, you can create as much as you want,

you can feel safe with money, and this is just a matter of

using yourself in such a way where you realize that you are

working with the energy of money, that you are in control

of the money, and that you can actually learn the tactical

tools and the mindset tools to make whatever your dreams are in

your life happen, and to also love where you are in the

process, because we're all on different places in our journey,

and it's all part of it. And and, you know, I think Laura and

I are both what? Almost 60 years of overnight successes.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of growing, right?

It's 60 years that puts you at 40 years of working history,

right? You know, and all these years of entrepreneurship, but

yeah, there's that piece again of you know, it's your journey,

it's your time. Tamar has her journey, I have my journey, and

really again, what's super powerful about our community is

the way that we can support one another. So, thank you for

bringing your strengths, Tamar. Thank you for bringing your

wisdom. I hope you and your beloved have such a good time in

Alaska, and I look forward to getting my hug with you in

person next time I get to see you, love.

Awesome. Awesome. Thank you for having me.

Mm-hmm, my pleasure.