Competing with Bowen Therapy at Massage Competition with Michelle Lally & Manon on The Healers Café

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Healers Café, the number one show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart-to-heart conversations about their day-to-day lives while sharing their expertise for improving your health and wellness.

[00:00:17] Welcome to The Healers Café and today I have with me Michelle Lally and we've done a spontaneous decide to meet because Michelle has just finished a competition with, what is it called, the Massage Therapy?

[00:00:38] The North Carolina Massage Competition which is a state-run competition that leads to an American Massage Championship and they have, you know, different, all the states compete and then get to go to the American, I guess you can go even if you don't run your state, to compete at the, you know, the American Massage Championship.

[00:01:00] So I wanted like first-hand experience how it was and also, you know, what it's like when, so Michelle, her background is she's a licensed massage therapist and in her state, in order to practice Bowen, one needs to be a massage therapist.

[00:01:19] So, um, most people don't know what Bowen is. It's been my, uh, my mission to get it out there too. And Michelle has, um, you know, has her own practice for years. She teaches it. Um, she was also connected with, um, Mosher who, you know, she learned his methodology. Anyway, she's been putting it out there every which way possible and has a full practice.

[00:01:45] And so I'm just, um, I'm really thrilled to be able to spend this time and let's talk about how difficult it is to, uh, to really publicize something that a lot of people just don't understand how it could be so effective when you do so little. It's the less is more thing, right? And massage therapists like physios, like, you know, these kinds of trainings are very hands-on.

[00:02:15] And very all over the body. And, you know, Michelle's like dancing along between people and sitting down, you know, for big parts of the time. So anyway, I'm just thrilled to find out a little bit how all that was. And by all means, uh, introduce yourself a little bit more if you want to. And yeah, what Bowen is, let's do it from your point of view.

[00:02:39] Yes. Thank you, Manon, for this opportunity. I, you know, learned about Bowen therapy in 2012 from Dr. Mitchell Mosher. He trained me for, uh, you know, we worked together for several years. And, uh, after a couple of years of working with him, he did not want to teach the technique anymore. So I kind of took that from him, uh, for him.

[00:03:00] And he would come and speak at a lot of classes and stuff. And, um, he, um, you know, was, was an essential tool for me in my belief system with the Bowen work. And I, you know, started teaching students. And when you and I met at a conference, uh, years ago, both of us would agree that maybe 20, 30% of the people at the massage conference had heard of Bowen therapy. And not a lot of people had heard of it.

[00:03:29] So it was because of you and I attending these conferences and putting Bowen out there that, you know, now I would have to say a good 60, 70% of people know what Bowen therapy is. They may not quite understand it yet, but that's why I thought it was important to, you know, once these competitions and these championships started taking off, this is the fourth year here in North Carolina.

[00:03:53] And even at the first year, I'm like, what is that? How do you, how do you compete in massage therapy? Right. Well, they have these different, um, things that you, they judge you on, you know, ergonomics and flow and technique, innovation, um, client contact. And so I'm like, gosh, I really want to, I want to try to do this with Bowen therapy and show that we can work on more than one person in the same timeframe.

[00:04:23] And so that was the challenge, you know, they give you a 10 by 10 space to set up. Okay. I'm going to set two tables up and a little table to take an intake in this space and then have another place for me to go and sit and wait the two for the pause. Right. And so I asked the judges before I went, how are they going to receive this different kind of a, of approach to this, uh, body work that is just as effective. Right.

[00:04:52] So I decided to sign up for the clinical, uh, round and the wellness round. The clinical round is 30 minutes. So I took two tables and kind of made it really clinical looking with white sheets and, you know, wore a white over, um, shirt with my logo on the back. And I treated specifically what was going on with the, I started them with the basic relaxation, both of them, both people that didn't know each other.

[00:05:20] I had two different intake forms. I looked at them. One had knee problems, one had lower back problems, but I treated them both the same with the, with the basic procedure protocols. And so they're watching me work on these two people, you know, going back and forth. And I only had 30 minutes to work on both of them. So I could not do the full two minute pause. So I would just maybe give it 30 seconds. And then I'd go back to the, to the first table and say, okay, well, you had knee problems.

[00:05:48] I'm going to do some hamstring or whatever I felt. And I would palpate and see what was going on with the person intentionally staying connected with her and making sure where the pressure was good. And they, they judge you on the client contact. And I would explain to them, okay, now I'm going to let you process that and go to the next table, which was this far away from the other table. That's all the room I had. So I literally had to turn around and, um, then I'd work on the other person with what shoulders, you know, whatever issue they had.

[00:06:16] So my goal, and they judge you on in the clinical, if they came in at a pain level of five, what is their pain level when they're left? And both of them were cut 50% in their pain level and the efficiency of the technique. Okay. So that was great. I was pleased with that. And then at the, uh, after the clinical round, they take you and they put you in a circle of judges and the judges asked you questions.

[00:06:41] Well, can you tell me why, you know, you had to give them, why you were hands off for a time? Cause they're so used to you having, you'd have to keep your hand on them the whole time during the massage. Right. And, and so I explained it very well, you know, well, the pause is just as important as the move because it allows the body to process, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:07:02] I even made a specific slideshow that the judges could watch while I was pausing and it was running on my little display table and they were all watching it. They were all looking at it and watching it. Okay. So that was a clinical round. That was my, you know, I was first up on the first day. I got all my scaredness out of me because I was, I mean, it took me two weeks of stressing out and prepping and having the props.

[00:07:29] And cause they judge you on how your, your booth looks like you're coming into a clinic or a spa. They want you to make it look like it's inviting and welcoming. Okay. So with the, with the next day I had to do the wellness category, which was an hour, 60 minutes. I'm like, Oh good. I can actually take some time and let the moves process.

[00:07:51] And I decked it out with Valentine's like a couple is coming in for a Valentine's session and they're just going to get a full one hour bowing session. And I would customize it with the basic protocols and then whatever was going on with that client, I would work on those specific areas. And I would, and I stretched it out. I about ran out of time, believe it or not. I was, you know, I was so relaxed and so comfortable doing the moves just in my groove. I didn't pay attention to what was going on around me.

[00:08:21] I was just connected with the clients on the table. And I felt like I did really well. I noticed they were kind of taking pictures of me sitting in the corner and wondering why I was sitting in the corner of the booth, which, you know, again, I had this much room to sit in the corner. But I was wiping my hands in between the clients because they judge you on cleanliness and all that stuff. So I had a thing of disinfectant wipes.

[00:08:49] And so I would wipe, throw them in the trash, go to the next client. Wipe, throw it in the trash, go to this client. So I'm doing all of that while I'm trying to do the bow and moves. It's a lot. It was a lot. But I wanted to showcase that we can work on more than one person at a time and be just as efficient as all of those other people doing all these fancy tools and moves and techniques, which are great. Those are great. But no one doesn't need that.

[00:09:18] And I firmly believe that. And I wanted to show that. So hopefully. And so, of course, I didn't expect to win any awards or anything because I really don't think they knew how to judge me. No, that's not that. And I knew that going into it. I wasn't really. But so I was waiting for my feedback. And I sent that to you, what their feedback was with me. And it was like, you really need to tighten up the space between clients.

[00:09:48] What does that mean? You know? So I decided the next competition, and I'm going to keep doing it because I think it's important that, if we are able to get into a competition, and I know all the countries have massage championships. Right. And that, why is nobody teaching, why is nobody showing bowen therapy in a championship? Yeah. You know? Maybe it's just United States thing. I don't know. I know Canada, you know. So I've talked to them.

[00:10:14] Well, I think, yeah, I think part of it is that I think there's only three states in the states that you have to be a massage therapist to practice bowen. Whereas in other places, like in Canada, you can be a naturopath. You can be a doctor. You can be a physio. It doesn't matter what your – I mean, you know, you need to have a background or get schooled in a background, you know, like at Bowen College.

[00:10:41] But you don't have to be a massage therapist. So I don't think, you know, massage therapist schools are not necessarily seeing Bowen as a massage therapy. Right? So because they didn't take it over, basically. Right. Right. Right. And it is more than three, actually. But it is proof every state has to report their continuing education to a board. Some school, yeah.

[00:11:10] So this is approved by, as you know, to be counted as continuing education credits. Yeah. So that's where I am trying to target those therapists. And a lot of people are looking for something different, especially as they get older, that they can be just as effective and not as strenuous on their bodies as therapists. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:11:32] Well, yeah, I was going to say, Michelle, we should maybe for the listeners to just explain – or I can do this part and you can talk about what it is for massage therapists specifically and why it's worth or, you know, it's worth looking at. But Bowen typically is done with a period in between moves so the body can actually integrate the information.

[00:12:00] So unlike some places where it seems like more is better or continuous is better, from a therapeutic point of view, if you give an actual, you know, we say two minutes, but it really – it can depend on the person. Sometimes it's even longer for the body to really – like if you do work on the pelvis, for example, it can take a little bit longer.

[00:12:26] And as a practitioner, you end up sort of feeling when it's time to continue, right? So doing it under tested conditions, it's quite funny to do this. But from a marketing perspective, it's absolutely brilliant, you know. So anyhow, but that's what it is. So people, that's – they typically come for an hour and it's not uncommon to just do – to lay the foundation work, which I call reboot.

[00:12:56] It's that you reboot the autonomic nervous system and then after that we start – we can reboot again, but then we do specific areas. Yes. Now, in a showcase situation, the body can take more.

[00:13:12] Like so, you know, what you did, for example, where you got a 50% improvement in pain, which is, by the way, really good, right, for a first session, especially done with shorter breaks, right, and not done quite, you know, in the ideal way that one would do it. We would take that hour and allow people to relax.

[00:13:35] And typically, I have found that if I do it like this in an acute – this is a pretend acute situation – that the results will last if I give the person the following week a real, full, proper treatment with the integration so that their nervous system gets the information.

[00:14:01] So that's kind of the context for those who don't know what Bowen is and it's a myofascial type of work, right? We do little moves in orchestrated parts of the body. A lot of it covers meridians, covers marmopoints, covers all kinds of mixed things. We're still trying to figure out really all of it, how it works.

[00:14:25] I think there's still unknowns to those of us practicing outside that it absolutely works. So that's – anyway, but why massage therapists are such good candidates for this work? You tell us that a little bit. Yes, yes. So, you know, a lot of new techniques that are coming out are less is more, okay?

[00:14:51] Because they're realizing that if you're doing deep tissue work for somebody for an hour, they're leaving in a fight-or-flight state of mind because they're in pain. What would your life be like if you were pain-free? If you were one of the millions who suffer from chronic pain, the thought of just one day without it may seem impossible. This is often because conventional medicine tends to fall short in the treatment of pain.

[00:15:17] Opting to prescribe pills or recommend surgery rather than getting to the root cause of the problem. But if you are suffering with emotional or physical pain, there is hope. Join the founder and CEO of Bowen College, Manon Bolliger, live online for your Body Mind Reboot. Learn how to listen to your symptoms and get to the root cause of your pain.

[00:15:42] Plus, be trained in basic Bowen therapy moves so that you can reboot your body for optimal health. You don't have to live in pain. You can heal. Stop the pain pill cycle by visiting www.yourbodymindweekly.com to learn more and to register.

[00:16:10] You're causing pain for them for an hour. You know, you're digging and you're scraping or you're cupping or whatever tools you want to use as a massage therapist. And those are great. Maybe you're stretching or whatever. Those are great. They work. But what if we just did that, you know, if you felt like you needed to do that, then finish it with the Bowen session. And then let's take them out of that fight or flight and put them into the rest and relaxation.

[00:16:36] And basically, that's what I offer to my clients is a full one-hour massage. And I don't do deep tissue even in my massage. But I will do some fascia release or some stretching a little bit. Nothing, you know, major. Just to loosen them up and get them loosened up a little bit. And then I do the Bowen session on them. And that's when they start to relax and fall asleep and go into that state of, you know, rest and relaxation.

[00:17:03] And that's why I think that what I'm offering and what I teach other therapists to do makes a difference in people's lives more than just getting a 90-minute session. You get an hour massage and then the Bowen. And it's just more beneficial that way, in my opinion. And my clients feel that way, too. Right. And, I mean, to the health, I think I've forgotten now so while I've done this research.

[00:17:27] But is it most massage therapists don't last in their profession more than seven years or something like that? That's exactly right. And guess who takes my class? A lot of 50-, 60-year-old therapists that have been doing it for 20 years. And they're like, we want to keep helping people. My hands, my thumbs hurt. You know, my wrists hurt. You know, I've had the carpal tunnel. I've had shoulder surgery. But even with those injuries, they can do this technique. Right.

[00:17:54] Even though their thumbs are, you know, may have worn their thumbs out. You know, they're going to gently just do a move. And guess what? Their client is responding and getting the results that they want. Yeah. And I tell them when I teach the class, I said, you're not going to really – I can tell you and tell you and tell you how this has worked. But until you take it to your table and you start doing this, then you're going to start believing in it. Because that's what happened to me. I had one person tell me their success with Bowen.

[00:18:22] And it encouraged me to learn more. And that's when I found Dr. Mitchell. And then I started putting it into my practice. And it wasn't until two, three months after people kept coming back to me saying, hey, do that flicky thing again. Right? And I'm like, okay. Why was it different? You know, I had more strength. I had more stability. I had more balance. You know, my seniors that I was working on was amazing. And that's what made me want to keep doing it more.

[00:18:52] And then I realized how important this work is, how important this Bowen therapy work is. And every massage therapist, anybody who – physical therapist, anybody who can help somebody by doing this Bowen work, the more people we can reach, the better. Because we're only going to help people. And that's my goal. You know, I can work on one person at a time or ten people in a day. Or I can teach ten students to do the same. Right. That's why I teach. Yeah.

[00:19:20] And I was going to say, from a practitioner point of view as well, like in my practice, so I had done Bowen for about 30 years, like in full practice. And one can see, you know, three to five patients an hour if you want to. Now, I'm not recommending you start with that. Right. Because it can be a little bit – I tell them two. Just do two. Yeah. Two is good. You know, again, it depends.

[00:19:49] I had the perfect space to be able to do that. And, you know, from a practitioner point of view, I looked at it like a walking meditation. I just went in silently into each room, did the little bit that needed to be done, and then moved on. And so by the end of the hour, you know, somebody arrived early, somebody arrived late. I was seeing about 150 people a week.

[00:20:18] So it all worked out. They just came to the next one. Everyone was patient because everyone felt, looked after. They got what they needed. It wasn't a feeling like, what's she doing? I mean, it happened. What's she doing leaving the room? And, you know, why am I not the only one? So there are things to discuss and to say, this is different, you know.

[00:20:43] But you're not – like sometimes, depending which chiropractor, but sometimes there it feels like you're just getting en route. You know, you're not getting really a treatment. It's sort of like it's a convenience to the practitioner. But here it's actually part of the methodology. It really is a necessary part. And when people get that and they relax into that, they get fantastic benefits.

[00:21:12] And the other thing you were mentioning, elderly or, you know, practitioners, this method is also incredible for elderly patients. They don't necessarily want to get all undressed. They don't – you know, they can't be in certain positions. Well, you can do bowing just about in any position. Yep. I've got stroke victims that I work on, them sitting in their lift chair.

[00:21:40] You know, I just sit underneath and do the moves the best I can. And that's what sold me on bowing therapy because I was fortunate enough. I was already offering massage at a senior activity center weekly and already getting them on a massage table because most seniors cannot sit in a chair, a massage chair. So this was a half-hour session I was offering at a discount. And then my schedule was full.

[00:22:05] So for me to transition them into the bowing technique, they believed me that this was going to help them because they were already coming to me. Right. So then, hey, I've got something new that I think is going to be great for you. I'm going to try it. And if you don't like it, we don't have to do it again. Well, they would come back every week and say, can you do that thing again? And that's when I would ask, what did you do? I could walk down the church aisle without holding on to the benches.

[00:22:35] You know, they had more. These were 90-year-old, 80-year-old ladies, right, coming in. And they didn't have to get undressed. They just got a 30-minute session and they were off. And it was helping so many people. And I was fortunate enough to have that already lined up to be able to practice this so much in the beginning and see the results. And that's what really sold me on it. If you take a class, yours or mine or online, and you never touch it again, you're not going to know.

[00:23:05] You're not going to know how this works. But if you go and you start to apply what you've learned, even if it's just one or two moves, you're going to see some changes. You're going to feel some chemistry changes in the muscles, in the tendons, in the fascia. And that's going to help you. Oh, wow, this is doing something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, lots of hurdles and misconceptions to get over for some people, you know.

[00:23:34] I think that's good. But once we've done that, there's nothing like facts, you know, the reality of people being out of pain, you know, and the fact that it takes usually, you know, three to five sessions almost no matter what they have, you know, how long they've had it. So it's like, wow, you know, that seems too good to be true. And we're trained too good to be true, therefore it can't be true. You know, we have a lot of training.

[00:24:03] But I wanted to address one other thing, just because I know that on your Facebook, there was so many mixed preconceptions about doing a competition, right? And I thought that was kind of funny. And I just, two points I want to make. One is, you know, I admire your courage because you're fitting in.

[00:24:31] And it's like a square into, or what's the expression? A peg into, no, how do you do this? The square into a round hole. Yes. As I felt like in the competition, I was an orange at an apple festival. Right. In an apple contest. And guess what? Oranges are just as good for you as apples. Right.

[00:24:52] But so from a marketing point of view, it's brilliant because you stand out, it is massage in your state. And people have got to go, what on the world are you doing? Right. Which I think you got that. The danger that I see, or I think the disclaimer I would put is, you know, and it happened to homeopathy.

[00:25:19] They found a remedy that worked well for diarrhea. So the assumption is, we'll give everyone that remedy. And if it doesn't work for an individual, then we know homeopathy doesn't work. Well, that's not how homeopathy works. You know, there are many different remedies for diarrhea. It depends on the person. Right. So in other words, trying to fit in a healing treatment in the parameters of half an hour.

[00:25:49] For example, and speeding things up and doing things not how one would do it in practice goes against the benefits of the actual results that you would really have in a real competition if the terms how this practice should be done was observed.

[00:26:11] You know, like I was filmed once by, I think it was CTV, and it's like for a shoulder, it was like they sent this client. I think you've seen this one. I've seen it, yeah. Yeah. This client around, and she's gone everywhere. And it was like to debunk all, you know, chiropractors, everything. Anyway, and I just said, you have to come on her second session. Because I did not want it the first time around, because they would look at me doing almost nothing.

[00:26:41] And often the very first time, there's a sense of relaxation, but not necessarily yet, you know, a healing of the joints or whatever. Not yet. It takes that week of receiving that deep, deep relaxation for it to work and last. And so they did, thankfully, come on the second one, because they thought they could still debunk it. You know? But on the second one, her body was able to lift her arm up, and it hadn't for like seven years. Oh, yeah.

[00:27:10] You know, so if you do, if you teach how it should be done, I think that's our next step in this looking at this. You know, saying, well, maybe every art has to be done the way it's normally done. You know, that's another, you know, because otherwise. That's what the hour session was, right? That's what the hour session was. Normally, we would have them in two different rooms. So, and going from one to the other.

[00:27:39] But because I only had one space. Yeah. I made it look like one person, as a massage therapist, can treat two people in the same hour and be effective. And they both got great results from this hour session. And that's what you want. And it was, I was in my zone. Like you said, I kind of went into a meditative state while I was in that hour with them. I didn't pay attention to who was, you know, there were 10, 12 judges walking around me, staring at me.

[00:28:09] Taking pictures. Other competitors that weren't competing. Their families. Everybody was watching me. Well, they were watching everybody. But they were like, what is she doing? Right. Is she going from one table to the other? How does she have two tables set up in the same booth? And it made it work. I don't know. I made it work. We practiced here. It took me two weeks of props and setting up and figuring out the configuration. And then getting there and only having half an hour to set up your booth. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:28:39] I mean, that's just part of the competition. And I did it. We did it. I had help and just did it once I was done. And I tell you, when I got done with the second round, which was my last round, they said, okay, your 60 minutes is up. I just went. And I felt tingles and chills and everything go through my body. And all the stress was gone. It's like, okay, I made it through this. I can do this now and not be so stressed out. Yeah. It can be happened.

[00:29:08] And so while I'm able, and if I can train other therapists to compete as well, let's show what Bowen therapy is. Yes. And yes, take my brochure, learn about it, learn more about it. But let's intrigue their interest to say, what is that? What is she doing? And these people are doing great. You know, what does she do to them? Because it works. And I just, that's what I want. I don't want it to not be known.

[00:29:38] And what a great way to show it, you know, and just go from state to state. And I can either judge a competition and do a showcase of the technique in 15 minutes and set two tables up and just do one or two moves with the pauses while I'm explaining what's going on, which is fabulous.

[00:29:53] And where I can do a full competition and not, you know, eventually I won't ever probably win a trophy because I'm not up there doing acrobats and dancing and using all these fancy tools that they like to see in the competition showcasing. And maybe, maybe not. Maybe they'll start understanding what the, so I thought next time I compete, I'm going to hold that sign up that says, this is what an intentional pause looks like while I'm sitting in the chair.

[00:30:22] I'm going to have the sign. Right, exactly. Facing the judges. What the intentional pause looks like. You know what? Exactly, exactly. They think you're just like lazy and sitting down. Anyway, well, Michelle, you know, thank you so much for sharing that. And like you said, we've really tried to do our best getting this out.

[00:30:48] And I really admire all the efforts you've put to put Bowen out and also the referrals to Bowen College where people can learn, you know, more stuff if they want to and go deeper and, you know, look at all that. So anyway, I think we're on the same page. So thanks very much. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. Thank you for joining us at the Healers Cafe.

[00:31:14] If you haven't already done so, please like, comment and subscribe with notifications on as I post a new podcast every Wednesday with tons of useful information and tips for natural healing that you won't want to miss.