Why Keeping the Peace Could Be Costing You Everything w/ Colette Fehr

[00:00:00] You're going to be better served by honoring yourself because the opposite is storing things inside and they turn into resentment. If you care about the relationship, say something. Colette Fehr is a couples therapist and relationship expert who has helped hundreds of couples rebuild connection. Getting into what silence costs at home and how you can take your voice back. What ends up happening is what I call victim volcano.

[00:00:27] Things stack up inside and you either explode and you look like the problem or it implodes and we get sick. A lot of us have what you call good girl-itis. Talk me through good girl-itis. This is a condition that society breeds in us from the time we're born where women who put their needs last were rewarded for that. How do you know whether to say something or just let it go?

[00:00:53] There are some things that you might choose to let go of, but what I want everyone to be doing is... Colette, so good to have you here. I'm so excited for today's conversation. Me too, Hilary. Thanks so much for having me. And what an intro. You made me excited about my own life again.

[00:01:19] Well, I got to tell you, there are so many similarities. I'm like, oh my God, this is going to be good. So here's the thing. I always like to kind of go back to the start where your biggest relaunch moment, and you've written that when your daughter's left home, you fell into this kind of like, oh, the house is so quiet.

[00:01:43] You were left wondering, like, what's next? But what was the most significant relaunch that you've had to date? And walk us through that. Yeah, no, it's so interesting to contemplate because I didn't see it coming. I had a career that I loved. I've been a couples therapist a long time. I got off on that path because of my first marriage, as you mentioned. And I was really happy with my career and still am.

[00:02:09] I didn't really have that I want and need more feeling until the kids left. But I had always been thinking in the back of my mind that I wanted to write a book. Even before becoming a therapist, I was a writer in my head in some ways as a child. You know, I had a pen name. I used to write books on loose leaf and my pen name was Sarah Lashes.

[00:02:34] So I saw that Sarah Lashes. I was so into it. What is this Lashes? I mean, I thought it was so great. I'm like, yes. I know. I don't even know where that came from or what that was about to this day. I have no idea where I got that from. But that's what I would role play as a child. You know, when other kids were being Wonder Woman and stuff, I was Sarah Lashes. And then I kind of put that on a shelf for my career. I think like we so often do something we might dream of.

[00:03:03] It doesn't seem practical. Life takes us in another direction. So at the time that the kids left, I was a little younger than a lot of my friends. I was in my late 40s and a lot of my friends still had much younger kids at home. So nobody was really free to play with me and enjoy that space. And my husband was at a very busy cycle of his own job where he was trying to help a company go public and he works in finance.

[00:03:32] And I remember kind of reaching to him like, what are we going to do now that there's no kids in the house? And he was like, I'm busy with work. He recalls it differently, of course. But the first thing I got was like, you know, you're kind of on your own. And I got to thinking, OK, I can either feel sorry for myself or bored or sit and pine away for my kids every day, which I did do for a little while.

[00:03:55] It was an emotional adjustment. And then I started to reflect on some of these dreams I'd had for a long time that maybe I thought were never going to happen. And the pivot was thinking, why not now? Why not at 50? And what if I just commit that I'm going to do what I want to do, whether doors open or not? And that was the ticket, that mindset.

[00:04:20] So you know what's interesting? There's so many people that listen to this show that have that inner calling that like, ah, you know, is it too late? I should be doing it. It's too late. And yet when I started doing all of the research around how many women after 50 decided to really take it on, you did it.

[00:04:47] And the book takes you back into the past where there was another massive significant, that first divorce. Can you walk us through that? Because I think it ties so nicely into then becoming the empty nester. Because relaunches, they're ever present. There's never going to be an ending to them, right?

[00:05:12] Absolutely. And they can be painful. You know, I think more people don't do it because it does require some discomfort. So it or a lot of discomfort. So in my first iteration of my first big relaunch was really that I had gotten into this marriage that I call in my book and whenever I talk about it, a surface marriage.

[00:05:34] Where coming out of a home where my parents argued a lot before they got divorced and were that couple that would not divorce for the kids. And it really made my life miserable, all that arguing, even though they're wonderful people. You know, what I resolved was I'm going to have the perfect marriage with no arguing. I thought that was the answer. And I got that for a time. We were college. Can I ask you a question about your parents? Yeah. So did they ever divorce or did they stay together?

[00:06:04] Yes, but not until I was 19 and it started around when I was 10 or 11. Isn't it interesting? Because I think that there's still, you know, individuals that are like staying together for the kids. My parents divorced when I was four and a half. And within a couple of years, they both met loves of their lives. And so I got to see kind of that early stage of like, wow, they really weren't together. I kind of a little bit remember.

[00:06:30] But I remember them like loving their spouse. So I got to see that. And I think that that's why I was able after my divorce to be like, yeah, I'm a marrying woman. I'm going to make this happen. But a lot of people feel like you have to, the kids, the kids. Tell us a little bit about in your practice what you've seen with the people that have actually stayed together with the kids because you're a great example of that.

[00:07:01] Yeah. I mean, sometimes it's a well-intentioned but often misguided goal. And what we know from the research, and then I can speak to what I see in my practice, is that really kids do best when parents are thriving and communicating well in their environments. And that's whether they're divorced or married. So it's definitely not one size fits all. The biggest reason people, that I hear people who would like to leave that they don't leave are finances and kids.

[00:07:28] And again, this is very, if this is you in your shoes, it may really feel in your bones like this is going to damage your children. And it's not wrong in the sense that if you divorce in a way that's injurious to the kids or there's a high-conflict divorce, that certainly can leave an impact.

[00:07:47] But it's not as accurate as it feels that divorcing, especially if you divorce and co-parent well, prioritizing the children, that's automatically going to destroy your children. And in my case, my parents were, I grew up very Catholic in a suburb of New York City where everybody was Catholic in my town. Not everybody, but it felt like it. I went to all-girls Catholic school. I did not know anybody with divorced parents.

[00:08:15] There was not one person in my extended family who had gotten divorced. So for my parents, this was wrong on a religious level, on a cultural level. They didn't have examples of doing it well. And back in the 80s, people were not focused on nurturing children through divorce. It was Kramer versus Kramer and irreconcilable differences and War of the Roses.

[00:08:40] You know, for anyone listening who's my age, yeah, those were the examples. Divorce is high conflict. It's a disaster and children are lost. We've come a long way. So I, when I'm working with couples or with women individually, I really am sensitive to people's religious beliefs, their cultural beliefs, what it's like to be in their shoes. I can tell someone all day, oh, it's not going to destroy your kids. But if that's not how it feels, that's not true to you.

[00:09:10] But I think we can work through that and commit to, we've got to balance what example am I setting for my kids? How am I able to show up for my children? And sometimes a marriage is abusive. It's unhealthy. You know, there are cases where staying in a relationship is going to affect you so deeply that you are not going to be your best self for the kids. And that's where we want to get curious about what else might be possible. And you did it.

[00:09:39] And your kids were, how old were you when you said, you know what, I'm actually going to, I'm going to do this. I'm going to go out on my own and become a single mom. Yeah, it was, when I look back on it, I'm like, oh my God, I can't believe it. I was 31. I'd been together with him for almost 14 years. My kids were one and a half and three and a half.

[00:10:00] And I will, I'll be honest, I was a little bit of the pendulum swinging in that I was so affected by my parents' unhealthy conflict that I was so determined not to have that, that I was like, oh my God, this marriage is so bad.

[00:10:16] And the minute I started to confront what was missing, I was so scared of conflict that I thought it was just better to walk away and start over and give my kids an argument-free life where I'll never know what would have happened.

[00:10:35] But a big part of why I wrote The Cost of Quiet is that you want to test out that middle ground of let's handle conflict in a healthy adult way and see what's possible. And then at least you can look back and say, okay, you know what, I did my part, I did my side of the street, and this person I'm married to isn't going to meet me there, which is sometimes the case. Other times it might be a whole new pattern can emerge and that this marriage could be savable.

[00:11:05] And I'll never know because I really genuinely got scared, and I think it was a very knee-jerk, there was a lot of complicated stuff happening in the marriage that I had no understanding of. I hadn't had no role model about how to navigate what I was feeling and needing in a healthy, assertive way. So I ran.

[00:11:29] You know, it's interesting because I'm thinking back since my parents got divorced and they did it the right way. Yeah. Then when I had the opportunity with my youngest who was four, my twins who were seven, I'm like, I'm going to make it even better. Yeah. And so I got to tell you this, I've often thought I need to write like The Great Divorce because even now as my kids are 25, 28, I mean, it's crazy.

[00:11:58] I still, in fact, right now I am planning with my ex-husband our Thanksgiving at his house and Christmas at my house. It's amazing. With each of our spouses. And I have to say I adore his ex or his wife. Yeah. And he's really close to my husband E. But I think that there's something I would like to really ask you.

[00:12:28] I do a lot of identity work where I'm like, you know, what identity do you really want to grow into? Do you want to make sure that you are putting out there? And I had created an identity of the mom I wanted to be, the future wife of my next husband because I was like, I'm going there. I'm doing, I'm going to do it again. It didn't happen very fast. I thought it would be like a two year and it ended up being like three, four, five, six, seven.

[00:12:57] I'm like, whoa, hold on. But what do you suggest with your clientele around kind of thinking about how you want your kids to see it? Is there identity building that you work on?

[00:13:42] Yeah. If someone goes low and you hang on to yourself and communicate in a way that's clear and respectful, that is part of your identity. I am a person who moves through the world in this way.

[00:13:57] And if we let the parts of us that are hurt, hurting, have been hurt or angry, run the show, not only does that hurt our kids, but it pulls us away from who and how we want to be in the world, which causes even more injury. So I find a lot of people want to do that.

[00:14:17] But if you've been, for example, if you've been cheated on and blindsided, and then on top of that, you're finding out, let's just say that your spouse wants to be with their affair partner and they're leaving you. I don't want to pretend that it's easy to show up in this divorce in an emotionally grounded way. You can do it, but you're going to need support and you're going to need to work through all of those feelings.

[00:14:43] And I do think a lot of people can still get to that place where years down the road, we're all having Thanksgiving together and we recognize we're here for the kids. You got to do your own work on the injuries though. Ah, so true. And let's talk about this book deal at 50. No platform, no following. You've called yourself part of the 0.01% with nothing there, right? Yeah.

[00:15:11] And yet you landed a contract with Penguin Random House. Like you got to walk us through how you were able to do this. Yeah. So, you know, this is to me also for anyone listening, I think there's some really good takeaways for your own story. And part of it is that we commit to a goal, but then we really let go of how it's going to happen to some degree.

[00:15:38] I did not set out saying, I'm going to publish a book with Penguin Random House. Now, if that's your goal, all the power to you. But a lot of that's out of your control. What I did set a goal finally was I've wanted to write a book since I was young. I've learned some things from my own personal journey and my professional work that I think would really help people, that I want to share with the world to help people. And now I have some time, so I'm going to make this happen.

[00:16:07] And the decision in my mind was I'm going to write and publish this book however I have to do it. So I didn't think it was really that possible that it would happen with Penguin Random House. But I didn't have in my mind this limitation or an idea that I was married to that unless I get a big contract, it's not good enough. And that's the part I think is instructive.

[00:16:30] What I said to myself is I believe in the power of these words and what I could share with people that it really will help them because not everyone can get into therapy. And certainly not everyone can get into me. You know, you're only one therapist in an office. I want to share this. And let me just trust that if I write it, I'll find a way. And if I self-publish, that's fine. Or if I get a smaller publisher, that's fine. So I started out with very much the mission.

[00:16:59] And then I would find a way to get these words into the world, even though I didn't know what it was. And I think that flexibility allowed me to be curious and open and very committed to my plan. So what I did was, and everyone I talked to was like, the book industry is impossible. You will never get published unless you have a huge platform. And there's some truth to that today. Things have changed a lot.

[00:17:26] It's gotten really, really hard to go the traditional path unless you have a big built-in audience. At that point, I had like 300 followers on Instagram who were my friends. You know, it was like pictures of me and the kids. Your kids are like, yeah, I'll follow you, Mom. Yes, exactly. I just wasn't plugged into any of that. I've run a successful word-of-mouth business on the down low for a very long time. And that worked for me.

[00:17:55] So instead of, oh, my God, I have to be what these publishers want me to be or it won't happen. I was like, I am going to write this from a heart-centered place. And I'm going to trust that because this mission is pure and important and I care about it, that I will find a way to birth this book. And so as I started writing it, people, and I swear, whatever your beliefs are, the universe, God, things were put into my path. They really were.

[00:18:25] I met someone who knew someone. I heard about, anecdotally, a Florida writers conference. And I went to that very spontaneously. I didn't even seek it out. And you could pitch agents there if you paid like 60 extra bucks. So I pitched agents on my idea and they were like, we actually love it. But you have no platform. Go build a platform and come back to us. One thing led to another. But I believed in the book and I talked about the book.

[00:18:54] I shared what I was doing with people. And one day I happened to mention it because some woman said something to me that was exactly the cost of quiet about why she didn't speak up in her marriage and how she'd kind of given up on feeling heard. And I happened to tell her what I was doing. And she was like, do you know that I wrote a book 20 years ago and I was on Oprah? And I was like, what? And she said, hey, I love what you're doing. Let me introduce you to my agent.

[00:19:23] She's in the psychology self-help space. Yeah. And she loved it. I didn't even realize she was as big of a deal as she was. And, you know, there were lots of steps in between. She was very honest with me that she might not be able to get me a contract because I didn't have a high visibility profile. But she was like, I believe in what you're writing about. And I really love the writing. And let's take a shot. Long story short, the book ended up going to auction.

[00:19:53] I got a six-figure deal. And the rest is history. And since then, I have hustled my butt off to try to do some of the things these publishers want. You know, I still don't have a huge profile. But I've built a profile and gotten myself out there and worked to promote the book.

[00:20:11] But I do think it's a testament to if you don't have a lot of rigid expectations for what your goal looks like and you commit to bringing it to fruition at any cost, that you might be surprised by what opportunities open up along the way. So here's what I thought was super fascinating about you, that you wrote the book on what it cost to stay quiet. And then you had to live it in your business, right?

[00:20:40] You hired a PR firm. Then you fired them. You had to advocate for yourself with agents, publishers, no leverage, right? Where did you have to actually have the hard conversations on your own behalf? And what did it cost you to open your mouth? Because you're sitting there and you got this book. Yes. Oh, my gosh.

[00:21:03] So this was the hardest part of it because I've gotten very good at exercising these muscles in my marriage by working on this in my own therapy, becoming a couples therapist. So I'm no longer afraid to speak up and assert myself at home like I was in my first marriage. But you are so right. I was not prepared for this. It doesn't show up a lot as a couples therapist. I'm very joined with my clients and connected to their feelings.

[00:21:33] It was really hard for me. I realized I had to build a muscle for confronting hard things in these situations. I felt the feelings that people often feel in a it's all the same, right? Whether it's at work or at home, you just might have your own spots that are harder. I felt like I had no power.

[00:21:55] I felt constantly afraid that if I said things, I would be seen as difficult or it would be like, who are you to push back? I would be annoying. I wasn't saying the right thing. I was being too much or not enough. It was really emotionally taxing on me. And I have to say, I think I probably made a lot of missteps.

[00:22:20] But I also think those missteps are how we learn being willing to feel uncomfortable and awkward and kind of give it a shot and learn from how you're received. Otherwise, the alternative is you just foreclose and you're filled with resentment. A hundred percent. So I want to take this one step further. And a lot of us have what you call good girl-itis. Yep.

[00:22:49] And you have it, you know, maybe from when you were growing up. I know I had an orthopedic surgeon dad who I was constantly trying to just like, you know, be that good girl and, you know, over deliver and prove. And I got to be perfect in order to get the attention. But, you know, you think this is personal. But then it does cross over into professional. Big time.

[00:23:16] So talk me through what you're, when you say good girl-itis. And how do you, how do you help people through it? Because I know there's a lot of women out there listening right now that are like, oh yeah, I get it. Yeah. And what's fascinating is that often, a big part of why I wrote this, is the women in my office are so smart and accomplished and successful. Good girl-itis isn't always in the package that you think it's going to be in.

[00:23:45] It's the female CEO. It's the brain surgeon. It's the Lockheed Martin engineer. And it's the successful stay-at-home mom. There's so many faces because this is really a condition that society breeds in us from the time we're born. It may be changing, but not quickly enough. There is still, even in these times when women are more educated and successful and empowered in some ways than ever,

[00:24:12] there's still so much bias where women who are soft and agreeable and put their needs last are valued. We're rewarded for that. And it's fascinating that you bring up your own dad. My dad's a doctor too, but I felt like I was very conditioned in my family to say what I felt and what I needed, which is great. And yet it didn't translate to the romantic context.

[00:24:39] Somehow I still got the memo from what I saw around me that my parents and my mom being, my mom's an attorney, she's very forthright. And I saw that in some way, I think, as like a bad thing or a thing that would annoy my husband. And in the workplace, you know, there's certain places that we're comfortable being assertive.

[00:25:03] But where I find it shows up is in the moments where we're not really sure if we're right or if it's okay or what the impact is going to be. And the common theme is either, you know, I'll say this and it's going to have such a cost. It's not even worth it to say it. I should just swallow it because it's not that big of a deal and it'll melt away rather than stirring a hornet's nest.

[00:25:31] You know, or I'll say it and it won't make a difference anyway. So why bother? And what I assert in the book and in my work is that those two things are automated protective cognitions, thoughts that come so quickly by all this conditioning that we should put our needs last that we don't even recognize it as a decision. It just feels like internal wisdom. And over time, we do that so many times.

[00:26:01] We're talking ourself out of moments of self-advocacy so much that we end up being totally disconnected from self, filled with resentment, exhausted, burned out, disconnected from ourself and others. And really, we start to get out of sync with even what we want and what we need emotionally.

[00:26:22] So I really want where I start with people and what I suggest for everyone listening is tuning into that automated, I call it the siren song of avoidance, where it's whispering to you, oh, don't make a thing of this. It's not even worth it, right? It's going to lead to a big thing and people are going to get upset or it won't change anything. And to take the time to get curious about that if it's as true as it feels.

[00:26:47] And if you were to say something, even if you decide not to, what would you want to express? Your feelings will guide you to what you need. And often it's not just a behavior change or a compromise. It's an emotional need. It's a need for reassurance or comfort to know that your voice matters, that you're heard, that what you want and need is important to your husband, wife, business partner, adult children.

[00:27:16] Those things, at least if we can acknowledge them within ourselves and stay connected to them and offer ourselves compassion, then we can make really wise choices about what's worth uttering and what isn't. You know, it's interesting as you're saying this. It's the understanding that our intuition is so desperately trying to get in touch with us and we can hear it. Yeah, it's there.

[00:27:45] I like to say it's like my I'm done moment. It starts out very soft and then it gets louder and louder until you have that moment of like, hey, are you going to listen? Are you going to do something about it? And I want to go back to something that we were talking about, the identity and relaunching you because you have always been a very private person. Your practice was very, you know, intimate, private.

[00:28:15] All of a sudden you're on Tamron Hall and you're doing these like big media presentation. You've got, you know, tens of thousands of followers. You've kind of gone to the other side very quickly. How have you allowed yourself using your own processes to evolve very quickly? Right. Because this is all happening like, OK, wait, now I'm actually on that that massive stage.

[00:28:42] How did you how did you work with yourself to create that next level identity? Yeah, it's a great question. So it's still a work in progress. I think it's been hard on me in ways. It seems like I'm having a frolicking great time. But and I am at times, but there's been a lot of doubt and indecision and self-reflection moments where I'm out of my comfort zone and I really don't know what to do.

[00:29:10] And I always come back to the process that I use with clients that I use for myself, which is really self-connection. And I call the process of communication I lay out in my book self-connected communication. This is the step we usually skip. It can be very easy to misinterpret intuition from fear. Right.

[00:29:34] Those things can show up initially in the body as almost the same nervous system reaction. Right. That that pit or that feeling, that gut reaction. It takes time. We've really got to pause and tune in inside to what the little girl who still lives inside of us, who's scared, is feeling and needing. We're all carrying old wounds. We want it. We're going to filter what happens through those old wounds. It's just part of being human.

[00:30:03] We've got to really tune into the body. What sensations are we feeling? What are my emotions trying to tell me? And that self-connection and giving that some space to tend to ourselves with loving curiosity, that's what changes the game because we can self-soothe. We can get really clear on what it's about and not lead with the first reactive impulse. And we can start to show up differently.

[00:30:32] When we show up differently with other people, we get different responses. We learn. We grow. And then things that once felt really scary, like being on TV. I mean, a few years ago, I would have passed out about the Tamron Hall show and not even been able to do it. Truly.

[00:30:50] And I felt nervous, but I felt mostly pretty confident because I'd been doing a lot of practicing that through the discomfort and staying connected myself to get there. That's really what it takes. So I know that you get asked this question all the time, and I have to do it for our listeners. Do it. How do you know whether to say something or just let it go?

[00:31:17] Because there are moments that, you know, is it really that critical to say something? Is there a formula you use? Is there something that we can have as a takeaway? Yeah. So most of the time, really, truly, you're going to be better served by honoring yourself. Because the opposite is storing things inside and they turn into resentment. It will affect that relationship. So that discernment process is in the self-connection.

[00:31:44] What I would argue, though, is that it doesn't always need to be said right then. And sure, there are some things that you might choose to let go of. But what I want everyone to be doing is going through that process, not just defaulting to that same old story of, hmm, this isn't going to be a good idea. If something matters to you, it's worth saying. If you're going to resent that person, treat them differently.

[00:32:09] If you care about the relationship and you want the relationship to stay clean, say something. But say it in the right way. Say it in a way that's self-focused, that's vulnerable. What ends up happening most of the time is we go into what I call victim volcano. We don't say it. We don't say it because it's not a big deal. It's not worth it. And things stack up inside.

[00:32:31] And then one day you either explode and then your reaction is so disproportionate to the little thing that happened that you look like the wacko, you look like the problem. Or it implodes and we get sick. There is evidence that emotional suppression causes massive health problems. You know, irritable bowel syndrome, anxiety, depression, even cancer. There's research to support this.

[00:32:56] So most of your relationships, if they're good, can weather you saying, hey, this is really hard to bring up. I feel really uncomfortable because normally I sweep things under the rug. I'm kind of a people pleaser. But I really care about you and the relationship. And something kind of hurt my feelings. Could you have this conversation with me? I might bungle it. I'm just going to try my best to be vulnerable. That kind of vulnerability where you acknowledge how much the relationship matters and how hard it is

[00:33:25] can help the whole thing land differently. But I would argue that if something matters to you, it's really never good to keep it in. But it is all about how you say it. Colette, thank you. Thank you for, like, being so honest about your quiet years, The Empty House. Because I know that that could have been a whole other conversation. The book that nobody asked you to write, but you knew you had to.

[00:33:53] And you had to do it, like, even when you're, you know, 50. I mean, come on. And here is what I would like for those listening right now. I want everyone to take away that silence can feel like peace, but it's not. It's a loan that you take out against your marriage, your business, and your own kind of self-identity.

[00:34:17] And what happens, you say this all the time, is that that interest compounds, compounds quietly. And then one day it's like, ah, you just like, you know, you can't handle it anymore. Yeah, one day you owe Amex, you know, a million dollars because you kept charging that APR and then you have to foreclose on your house. Exactly. It's not worth it.

[00:34:40] And when you try this and I give you the method to do it, you might be amazed how much less scary it is in actuality than what the anticipation of it tells you. And I often say, you know, I have this whole thing around entering into a rich life and what that means to you specifically, rich in all areas.

[00:35:03] And richness has to come from the women who actually open up their mouth, right? They have the conversations. They have them early on while everyone still has the energy to care about it, right? Because it's exhausting. Yeah. So what I would like is everyone listening, pick one conversation that you've been avoiding.

[00:35:29] Not the whole backlog that you have, you know, the, oh my God, let me, you know, it's like a Christmas Santa list. No, just one. Yep. And literally, like, say that this is no longer, you're not going to do it and say something out loud, like you were saying, Colette. So Colette, where can people find more about you? Where can they find your book? Yeah. Well, like you said, now you almost can't not find me. I went from nowhere. It's really true. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:58] So my website, Colette Fehr and fair spelled F E H R. Colette has one L. My book is everywhere. Books are sold, you know, Amazon, Barnes and Noble. You can also get it on my website. There's Kindle, there's Audible. I narrate the book myself and I do make this process really, really tangible and accessible and easy for you exactly how to figure out what's going on and to say it. And then, of course, my TEDx talk is out there.

[00:36:27] Secrets from a couples therapist. I'm on Instagram at Colette Fehr. And I do have a very active sub stack where I give a ton of relationship advice for free called Secrets from a Therapist. So I challenge you to not find me even if you don't want to. So everyone, we will have all of this in the show notes.

[00:36:49] And again, if you haven't subscribed to the Relaunch to a Rich Life show right now, go hit subscribe so that you don't miss an episode. And if this one moved you and you're like, ah, my friend needs to hear, make sure you send it, right? Send it to a woman in your life who has been keeping peace for years.

[00:37:12] Because sometimes one honest conversation you need to hear this episode is all it takes to start a Relaunch. Take care, everyone. Until next week. All right. Your next level is waiting. Thanks for tuning in. This is amazing what we're doing right now. ReLaunch to a Rich Life.

[00:37:38] If today's episode sparks something in you, don't keep it to yourself. Please share it. I'll tell you more later about how that actually helps you have more success yourself. Subscribe so you don't miss one episode. Let's create unstoppable momentum together. So until next time, keep relaunching, keep rising. And remember, it's go time.