In this episode of The Healers Cafe, Manon speaks with Kumiko Kanayama, a Shiatsu grandmaster and founder of the Five Lights Center, shared her journey from Hiroshima, Japan, to New York, where she learned Shiatsu at the Ohashi Institute. Kumiko's unique style, Intuitive Shiatsu, emphasizes the balance between the giver and receiver, focusing on energy flow and meridians.
For the transcript and full story go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/kumiko-k
Highlights from today's episode include:
Kumiko Kanayama: Touch is a gift of love and kindness that anyone can learn and share.
Kumiko Kanayama: In Intuitive Shiatsu, the giver's balance (diet, breath, mindset) is as important as the receiver's.
Manon: Our modern society is disconnected from the body and its energy, making healing touch more needed than ever.
ABOUT KUMIKO KANAYAMA
Kumiko Kanayama is a shiatsu Grandmaster and the Founder of The Five Lights Center, the longest-running shiatsu foundation in America. A versatile practitioner, Kumiko's many years of practice led her to develop her own style, known as Intuitive Shiatsu™. She has built a thriving practice with devoted clients such as Gisele Bündchen and Nicole Kidman. Her insights have been featured in Insider, Best Life, Well+Good, Parade, Runner's Digest, The Village Voice, You Aligned & Acupuncture Today. Visit: www.fivelightscenter.com to learn more.
Core purpose/passion: Kumiko is committed to helping bring spiritual serenity and human touch communication as a means to harmony, not only in her own life but in the lives of those she touches. Bringing the balance and goodness of shiatsu beyond bodywork into the lives of as many as she possibly can.
Website | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | Yelp | YouTube |
ABOUT MANON BOLLIGER, RBHT, FCAH:
As a retired Naturopath 1992-2021, I saw an average of 150 patients per week and have helped people ranging from rural farmers in Nova Scotia to stressed out CEOs in Toronto to tri-athletes here in Vancouver.
My resolve to educate, empower and engage people to take charge of their own health is evident in my best-selling books: 'What Patients Don't Say if Doctors Don't Ask: The Mindful Patient-Doctor Relationship' and 'A Healer in Every Household: Simple Solutions for Stress'. and What if Your Body is Smarter than You Think? I am the Founder & CEO of The Bowen College Inc. which teaches BowenFirst™ Therapy and holds transformational workshops to achieve these goals.
So, when I share with you that LISTENing to Your body is a game changer in the healing process, I am speaking from expertise and direct experience".
Mission: A Healer in Every Household!
For more great information to go to her weekly blog: http://bowencollege.com/blog.
For tips on health & healing go to: https://www.drmanonbolliger.com/tips
Follow: Manon Bolliger website | Linktr.ee | Rumble | Gettr | Facebook | Instagram | YouTube | Twitter | LinkedIn |
Follow: Bowen College Inc. | Facebook | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube | Twitter | Rumble | Locals
ABOUT THE HEALERS CAFE:
Manon's show is the #1 show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives.
Subscribe and review on your favourite platform:
iTunes | Google Play | Spotify | Libsyn | iHeartRadio | Gaana | The Healers Cafe | Radio.com | Medioq | Audacy |
Follow The Healers Café on FB: https://www.facebook.com/thehealerscafe
Remember to subscribe if you like our videos. Click the bell if you want to be one of the first people notified of a new release.
* De-Registered, revoked & retired naturopathic physician after 30 years of practice in healthcare. Now resourceful & resolved to share with you all the tools to take care of your health & vitality!
00:00:00
Manon Bolliger: Welcome to the Healers Cafe, the number one
00:00:03
show for medical practitioners and holistic healers to have
00:00:08
heart to heart conversations about their day to day lives
00:00:12
while sharing their expertise for improving your health and
00:00:17
wellness.
00:00:20
So welcome to the Healers Cafe, and today I have with me Kumiko
00:00:25
Kanayama, and she is a Shiatsu grand master and the founder of
00:00:31
the Five Lights Center, which is the longest running Shiatsu
00:00:36
foundation in America. Kumiko's many years of practice has led
00:00:42
her to her own style, known as Intuitive Shiatsu, and she's
00:00:49
built a thriving practice with devoted clients of all types,
00:00:55
like Nicole Kidman, and her insights have been featured in
00:00:59
many renown magazines, Best Life Insider, Village Voice,
00:01:04
Acupuncture Today, etc. So, without going into more of all
00:01:09
that, I just wanted to welcome you and ask you, How did this
00:01:15
journey start for you?
00:01:18
Kumiko Kanayama: Oh, thank you, Manon. Thank you for having me.
00:01:20
I am so excited to be part of your group and bringing all the
00:01:29
healings and helping people. It's very, very, very important,
00:01:34
especially now, so many things are happening in the world, and
00:01:43
then we try to be kind to each other, try to be helpful to each
00:01:48
other to make a peace. So I am Comico Kanayama, and I was born
00:01:57
in Hiroshima, Japan, and all my family and friends, neighbors,
00:02:07
teachers, everybody talked about Hiroshima atomic bomb
00:02:13
experience. How this one bomb killed over 140 people, and
00:02:22
how this one instant was creating over the years of human
00:02:34
fighting spirit. So, and then I grown up in a big family, my
00:02:41
grandparents, Grandma, my aunt, and my uncle, and a small house,
00:02:48
everybody had together, and I learned so much from my
00:02:53
grandmother. Grandmother went to the school, it was like before
00:03:00
the world was second education, and she learned how to use
00:03:06
hands-on touch technique, Shiatsu techniques to help
00:03:10
families to be healthier and stronger in daily life, and the
00:03:17
grand, my grandfather taught me Mark Hall Meridian Stretches, I
00:03:21
didn't know the name at the time, but it was Mark Hall. He
00:03:26
told me he showed me almost every day he was practicing. I
00:03:31
was peeking through the door, that's great. I don't know what
00:03:39
he's doing, but it looks good, so that was my upbringing, and
00:03:44
my uncle Wataru Hashi brought Shiatsu to United States, and he
00:03:51
created nonprofit educational organization to be peace, bring
00:03:56
the peace to the world, and we create the motto Touch for
00:04:01
Peace, and he established his school 1974 and after the many
00:04:08
years of training, and his mentorship, and his teachers,
00:04:14
and I ran so much, and he told me, create your own, and I
00:04:21
create five light center, go Shikim, which means based on
00:04:27
five elements, five same senses go beyond five senses to
00:04:32
understand human nature from an energetic point of view, and I
00:04:38
wanted to feel everybody is a beautiful light, everybody has
00:04:43
good things to bring it to the universe, to the, to the, this
00:04:48
planet, and I want to have a gathering together, gather
00:04:54
people together to feel the power of positive. Energies, so
00:05:01
that's my story.
00:05:04
Manon Bolliger: Wow, that's quite a, quite a way to start,
00:05:07
too. Oh my goodness, yeah. But I'm gonna start where you
00:05:13
started, just with some questions. So, at that time, so
00:05:17
your family was, it was your father, right, doing this. No,
00:05:22
Kumiko Kanayama: my grandmother, grandmother. Sorry,
00:05:25
Manon Bolliger: I missed that. Okay,
00:05:27
Kumiko Kanayama: no. At the time, everybody kind of.. they
00:05:32
knew how to do the hands-on treatment because it was part of
00:05:36
education, part of the school curriculum. So I learned from
00:05:41
my, especially from grandmother, how to do the shoulders and feet
00:05:47
and head. This was simple techniques, but it helped me to
00:05:53
feel the her love through the hands, her kindness. I still
00:05:58
remember the time I was together with my grandmother, that was
00:06:02
such a special time in my life.
00:06:06
Manon Bolliger: Yeah, I mean, what a difference to start, you
00:06:11
know, your life with that. That is part of education, you know.
00:06:16
We live in a society so disconnected, you know, from our
00:06:21
bodies and from our energy, or even understanding our energy,
00:06:26
you know, it's at least in my practice, it takes, it seems to
00:06:32
be such a foreign thing to know to touch the body, or you know,
00:06:38
except if you're examining it for something, but to actually
00:06:43
understand that the body has its own, you know, chi in its own
00:06:49
energy system as a young child to learn that, and then in a
00:06:54
time where it was, you know, very traumatic that it was
00:06:58
something available for people to, to rely on, that's that's
00:07:03
incredible. It's an incredible story. Yeah,
00:07:09
Kumiko Kanayama: yeah, I was very lucky to have this gift.
00:07:13
Yeah, everybody feels just is like a gift, and touch is such a
00:07:20
gift, and
00:07:22
Manon Bolliger: yeah, yeah, so tell us, then, so after that,
00:07:26
you, well, you started practicing it, or how did you,
00:07:31
what came next in your life? You, well,
00:07:36
Kumiko Kanayama: I came to, I went to New York with my
00:07:40
sisters, because my uncle was already here in New York, he had
00:07:45
a school, and I was so fascinated with the sea, though
00:07:50
such big people, tall people, fat people, such a high tall
00:07:55
buildings, and I was just blown away in my mind and I went, and
00:08:03
there's so many different languages, so many different
00:08:06
color of the skins and and the faces, and I was so fascinated,
00:08:13
and I saw someday I want to come and study, that was my, my
00:08:20
impression, and then my uncle said, "If you want to come, just
00:08:24
come, you can study, go to school, and study. And I came to
00:08:31
United States, New York, after many years later, and I went to
00:08:39
school. School was Ohashi Institute, where I learned
00:08:45
Siatsu. I thought I'm gonna just run the languages and go home,
00:08:49
but Shiatsu was much bigger than anything else, and I was so
00:08:55
fascinating. And then there was so we had so many great
00:08:58
teachers, and they had the long arms, long legs, they are moving
00:09:04
beautifully, they are talking about shiats in in a beautiful
00:09:09
way. So I never thought about how I can explain to others, so
00:09:15
I say, "Oh my god, I have to learn more, and they just kind
00:09:19
of went by because it's the energy we are dealing with,
00:09:23
energy, energy is unlimited, it's everybody has such a
00:09:28
beautiful, different energies, so it just took me a for a long
00:09:35
time to understand and feel, but I, after Shiatsu, everybody just
00:09:41
smiles. They say, "Oh, I feel so much better. Makes me so happy.
00:09:49
Manon Bolliger: So, can you explain? I'm sure the majority
00:09:52
of people have heard about Shiatsu, but can you explain
00:09:57
what it is in simple terms? Terms, you know what, how it
00:10:02
works, the premise, and then also then I'll ask you what it
00:10:07
makes yours, you know, different because you have called yours
00:10:12
intuitive shiatsu, but let's start with shiatsu, and then go
00:10:16
to your specific way of mastering it and teaching
00:10:22
Kumiko Kanayama: it. Okay, shiatsu is Japanese character.
00:10:26
Straight translation is she is finger arts is pressure, so it's
00:10:33
like a finger pressure techniques that's we can say
00:10:45
acupuncture without needles, that's the okay.
00:10:49
Manon Bolliger: So, what is the difference between Shiatsu and
00:10:52
pressure points, for example, or acupressure? What's
00:10:57
Kumiko Kanayama: the acupressure? They focus on the
00:10:59
more points. There's. we go through both pressure points,
00:11:06
and then also acupuncturist, they put the needles on the
00:11:11
points, and then in a traditional Shiatsu, they use
00:11:17
the more thumbs, and they work on the points,
00:11:22
Manon Bolliger: okay, so So, so is it? Is it more like a massage
00:11:29
with, like, is there more movement in it? There's no
00:11:33
needles, and there's no long pressure. So, is that, is that
00:11:39
correct version of it?
00:11:42
Kumiko Kanayama: You have a good point. So, my uncle is a small,
00:11:47
like me, small tiny person, and he has to work on the big, tall
00:11:52
American people, and they, in a, in a traditional sense of
00:11:56
shelter, was using thumbs, and then he felt he cannot only use
00:12:02
thumbs because it didn't do much for the American people, and
00:12:08
then he said, "Oh, I need to protect my thumbs, and then
00:12:13
started to use entire bodies, so he created the system to use
00:12:21
thumbs and elbows knees and move entire bodies, his bodies to
00:12:28
create the flow of energy, and then I start to realize all the
00:12:35
pressure points is so powerful, and then energy pathways is also
00:12:42
very, very powerful, so I apply entire my body, and then work on
00:12:49
the pressure points by opening, closing, opening, closing
00:12:54
techniques to create flow of energy, and it is stagnant
00:13:02
energies,
00:13:06
Manon Bolliger: so yeah, opening and closing, because so that,
00:13:08
that is, so let's say you have a meridian line, and where would
00:13:15
you have the concept of opening it or closing it, what would be
00:13:21
the like the conditions or the symptoms that would make you go,
00:13:26
it this needs to be closed or opened.
00:13:30
Kumiko Kanayama: Yes, our body is so special, some miraculous,
00:13:38
so we have a bones and the muscles, so we stretch and then
00:13:44
open the joint, and then apply my thumb and turn around, and
00:13:52
then closer stretch open, place my thumb, and close by holding
00:14:04
bones.
00:14:06
Manon Bolliger: Okay, so let's say you're doing like the
00:14:08
pericardium meridian, you'd be stretching it. I'm on the wrong
00:14:13
side here,
00:14:16
Kumiko Kanayama: together with my clients, right away, straight
00:14:22
direct stretch, that's alcohol, straight direct straight. This
00:14:28
is already creating the energy flow.
00:14:31
Manon Bolliger: Yeah,
00:14:32
Kumiko Kanayama: you feel the like a vibration, you see the
00:14:38
warmth, and then that's this is opening
00:14:43
Manon Bolliger: right and then we turn it
00:14:45
Kumiko Kanayama: on and then close,
00:14:50
yes,
00:14:51
Manon Bolliger: okay,
00:14:52
Kumiko Kanayama: and I feel like a relaxed, okay,
00:14:55
Manon Bolliger: right, okay, so so then when, when you, I mean.
00:15:00
Can teach this, obviously, to healthcare practitioners, but my
00:15:04
understanding with Shiatsu and in Japan, especially, that
00:15:09
there's a lot of teaching it to families and the community.
00:15:14
Commercial Break: What would your life be like if you were
00:15:16
pain-free? If you were one of the millions who suffer from
00:15:20
chronic pain, the thought of just one day without it may seem
00:15:24
impossible. This is often because conventional medicine
00:15:27
tends to fall short in the treatment of pain, opting to
00:15:31
prescribe pills or recommend surgery rather than getting to
00:15:34
the root cause of the problem. But if you are suffering with
00:15:38
emotional or physical pain, there is hope. Join the founder
00:15:43
and CEO of Bowen College, Manon Bolliger, live online for your
00:15:49
body mind reboot. Learn how to listen to your symptoms and get
00:15:53
to the root cause of your pain, plus be trained in basic Bowen
00:15:58
therapy moods, so that you can reboot your body for optimal
00:16:02
health. You don't have to live in pain. You can heal. Stop the
00:16:08
pain pill cycle by visiting www.yourbodymindreboot.com to
00:16:14
learn more and to register.
00:16:24
Manon Bolliger: You that, am I correct in that? Yeah.
00:16:26
Kumiko Kanayama: Yes.
00:16:27
Manon Bolliger: So, so then this is where all the movement comes
00:16:32
in, right? Because all the meridians. So, let's say, let's
00:16:37
say you wanted.. I'm just trying to think of a condition. Well,
00:16:42
one condition that a lot of people have now is neuralgia,
00:16:49
all kinds of neuralgia. So, it's the nervous system. Now, from a
00:16:55
Chinese point of view, I mean, there's not a nervous system
00:16:59
meridian, for example. You know, you could do kidneys, you could,
00:17:03
you would have to kind of diagnose what the, you know, is
00:17:07
it an immune system weakness or what's going on, but how would
00:17:12
somebody who has, let's say, you know, neuralgia after, after
00:17:16
shingles, or you know, that kind of could be restless legs, like
00:17:23
there's a lot of nervous impact to the latest tragedy in our
00:17:31
world. Yes,
00:17:33
Kumiko Kanayama: because it's everything's like vibrating at
00:17:36
such a fast mood, computers, and then everything just comes and
00:17:42
they keep us and then we have no time to relax, so no time to
00:17:48
shut down every day. There's something comes to my our phones
00:17:54
and computer screens, and they just too much.
00:17:58
Manon Bolliger: Yeah,
00:17:58
Kumiko Kanayama: so yes, so the shiatsu is you need to look into
00:18:04
yourself, look inside of yourself and relax all the nerve
00:18:12
system, so we are human beings being together. I am being with
00:18:21
my clients, I give my hands, and then we breathe together, and
00:18:27
then when you breathe in, breathe out, and it is all the
00:18:35
stagnant energy or nervous energies, and then put back in,
00:18:44
so that's simple breathe in and breathe out techniques together,
00:18:50
working on the broader meridian, which is around the spine, which
00:18:56
is connected to the nerves, sympathetic nerve, so I give my
00:19:00
hands and hands give a heat, so heat helps the water energy to
00:19:07
come down. Yes,
00:19:14
Manon Bolliger: interesting. Yeah. No. So, so how young do
00:19:17
you do you teach like children, and that if they're open.
00:19:23
Kumiko Kanayama: Oh, I, my daughter was always with me when
00:19:26
I, I took the classes,
00:19:30
and
00:19:34
I had my, my daughter's group, which was like a from babies to
00:19:42
the five years old.
00:19:44
Manon Bolliger: Well,
00:19:45
Kumiko Kanayama: and then they just put on our movement, and
00:19:49
then they're, they are, they feel happy energy, and then they
00:19:55
each other, they become such a good friends, and the mothers
00:19:58
was absorbing. And then they, they gave a hand to the baby,
00:20:03
and they started to walk on their back, go ahead, and it was
00:20:09
such a beautiful thing to say. Yeah, anybody, anyone can do,
00:20:15
they have, but just the size is different, and body size is much
00:20:22
smaller, but their heart is like so open, and then we start to
00:20:30
move around calmly, peacefully, and they want to follow. Yeah,
00:20:37
Manon Bolliger: right. Interesting. And if people do
00:20:40
like a routine like every day, let's say, to you know, to get
00:20:46
their back in balance, or like that. How long do you recommend
00:20:53
if people, you know, to do something on their own? Let's
00:20:55
say they're, you know,
00:20:57
Kumiko Kanayama: it doesn't take too long. I
00:21:00
Manon Bolliger: tell
00:21:01
Kumiko Kanayama: my clients, do stretch arms, move your arms,
00:21:09
and that's it. Doesn't take much harm, but that's we are already
00:21:14
stretching all the 12 meridians and the five elements, that's
00:21:19
already balancing your energy flow, so he doesn't.
00:21:25
Manon Bolliger: Can you, can you show us, like, do a little
00:21:28
demonstration?
00:21:29
Kumiko Kanayama: Sure, yeah. Okay, go
00:21:31
Manon Bolliger: ahead.
00:21:32
Kumiko Kanayama: Let's do it together. You can see that you
00:21:34
can. Yeah, I'm gonna,
00:21:35
Manon Bolliger: I'm gonna mute because there's too much noise
00:21:38
behind me, but I'm with you.
00:21:42
Kumiko Kanayama: Yeah, just bring the arms in front of you,
00:21:46
and then relax your fingertips. You visualize your like touching
00:21:51
the water, or touching the air, or touching the wind with your
00:21:56
fingertips. Relax your fingertips, and then when you
00:22:02
relax, elbow is relaxed, shoulder is relaxed, the more
00:22:07
the move as slow as possible. Do you feel, do you feel some kind
00:22:12
of why you feel the vibration in the fingertips, and then from
00:22:18
here I usually stretch my spine, which is the water element, and
00:22:24
storage your water element, and then open the palms, and then
00:22:30
pay attention to your thumbs, and then you're already
00:22:34
stretching your lung meridian metal energy, so you're
00:22:38
breathing in the energy into your system, and then pay
00:22:44
attention to your thumbs, and then you're stretching your
00:22:49
large intestine energy, which is letting go, relax, and then
00:22:55
bring the arms and the 90 degree angle, and then open your palms,
00:23:01
can see open your palms like that, 90 degree angle, as just
00:23:07
open as much as you can, and this is how construct the small
00:23:12
fire energy, so you feel heat, also triple heater on the yang
00:23:17
side, you feel the heat in your body, so you just open and open
00:23:23
your chest, that's how constrictor, so this is opening
00:23:27
your heart stretch to the heat energy in your body, and then
00:23:37
slowly release, pay attention to your ring fingers, which is like
00:23:43
a digestive system, liver and stomach channel, so you release
00:23:50
all the toxins from your body and relax your mind, and then
00:23:55
slowly release, pay attention to your pinkies, this is hot and
00:24:01
small intestine energies, your fire energy, and relax, breathe
00:24:07
in and out. Fire is for your arm, that's the quality of
00:24:14
energy. And then slowly release, you're stretching your water
00:24:20
energy, and then open the palms, press the palm, press your hands
00:24:26
on your lap, or just open the palms when you're standing, and
00:24:30
then feel the vibration in your palms or fingertips or your
00:24:35
chest, and then we put the both hands together in the casual,
00:24:44
and then we thank to the universe, thanks to the your own
00:24:50
strong health and balanced mind, and then we keep going in the
00:24:57
day and. It
00:25:01
Manon Bolliger: seems simple enough. It's a simple stretch,
00:25:05
Kumiko Kanayama: yeah, yeah, simple stretch for balance
00:25:08
through the five elements,
00:25:09
Manon Bolliger: right? So you can do that without doing
00:25:14
anything with the lower body, your
00:25:17
Kumiko Kanayama: because Meridian go through from head to
00:25:21
toes, pay attention, even just stretching your fingertips.
00:25:27
Manon Bolliger: This is
00:25:28
Kumiko Kanayama: already connected arms and the legs
00:25:31
everywhere.
00:25:32
Manon Bolliger: Yeah, instead
00:25:34
Kumiko Kanayama: of just doing it, just pay attention, pay
00:25:37
yearly, really attention, and do it. Any energy follows,
00:25:42
Manon Bolliger: yeah, yeah. So, what is the difference between
00:25:49
Shiatsu and what you're calling intuitive Shiatsu?
00:25:53
Kumiko Kanayama: Yes, for the Shiatsu is not like a pressure
00:25:57
point. Yes. Okay. Well, intuitive Shiatsu is, we pay
00:26:02
great attention to the giver, we also pay attention to the
00:26:07
receiver, but also giver has to be balanced. If mind is going
00:26:14
crazy, you cannot give a good sessions, so we have to watch
00:26:22
our diet, we have to do the exercise, meditation, breathing,
00:26:28
and then we are the two. We don't use any other
00:26:34
measurements, so we are the measure of the energy balance
00:26:39
for your client, your partner, so we have to be clean, as clean
00:26:45
as possible, and then we could feel the energy, and then we use
00:26:50
the pressure points and meridians, and the work, and the
00:26:55
balance, and the balance your partner's body and mind, and
00:27:03
then connect to the spirit, and if they feel good,
00:27:07
Manon Bolliger: so intuitive, it's really so that you're not
00:27:10
an obstacle in it's like clearing it's your journey, so
00:27:16
that you're able to assess and and feel what the other person
00:27:22
needs, right?
00:27:23
Kumiko Kanayama: Exactly, yeah, it's working together
00:27:27
Manon Bolliger: exactly, instead of just a technique, you're
00:27:29
actually you're getting input, and
00:27:33
Kumiko Kanayama: exactly you learn to
00:27:35
Manon Bolliger: trust that
00:27:37
Kumiko Kanayama: exactly.
00:27:38
Manon Bolliger: So, I mean, if we
00:27:39
Kumiko Kanayama: are not like a dictator, say you have to do
00:27:41
this, this, this, just we feel, because, yeah, that's
00:27:46
Manon Bolliger: how it works. Yeah, so we have a couple more
00:27:51
minutes. Is there anything else you wanted to share that that
00:27:57
people could find out either where, where they can learn this
00:28:02
with you, or yes, you want to share.
00:28:05
Kumiko Kanayama: Yes, please. Yeah, look at our web website,
00:28:11
Five Grad center.com We have online courses, we have
00:28:16
in-person courses, and then we do the medical home weekly
00:28:20
lessons, happens on Wednesdays at 3pm New York time, and we
00:28:28
have Marco leader Keith. It's great. And we have a retreat
00:28:33
workshops in Italy, and we have a Shi's Summit in Hornsdale,
00:28:40
Pennsylvania. And then I go to Kripalu Yoga Centers, Omega
00:28:46
Institute holistic centers, and reach out to the community
00:28:53
centers, Jewish Community Center, JCC, and I just, I just
00:29:01
did a presentation at the high school. All the kids are so
00:29:06
happy.
00:29:09
Manon Bolliger: That's great. Well, thank you very much for
00:29:14
sharing your, your knowledge and your, your passion for this.
00:29:19
Thank you,
00:29:20
Kumiko Kanayama: thank you, Manon. Thank you for having me.
00:29:23
Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:29:25
Manon Bolliger: Thank you for joining us at the Healers Cafe.
00:29:27
If you haven't already done so, please like, comment, and
00:29:31
subscribe with notifications on, as I post a new podcast every
00:29:37
Wednesday with tons of useful information and tips for natural
00:29:42
healing that you won't want to miss.