EP 379: Finding Success after 40 years of the Wrong Choices with Sean Lizée

Debra, with her 30 years of being an entrepreneur and creating over seven companies, knows exactly what it means to accept the mission. When you make that decision, when you accept the mission to become a solopreneur, to take yourself and your talents to market, then you embrace a life of not only unlimited possibilities but also the unknown. It's an elixir of fear and bravery that only someone who's taken the leap really understands. On our show, Deb digs deep with her guests to highlight what you, the listener, wants to know: the stories, the whys, and the hows to navigate the journey to success. Get ready to hear from some of the most incredible mission takers, from Generation Z to Boomers, so sit up, perk up, and get ready to be blown away. Now, here is your host, Debra Drummond.

Welcome back. We are so grateful that you are here, and you are in for a party. You are in for a party today because, folks, I never tell you what day it is, but today you are going to feel like anything is possible, and so are a lot of people that are actually. I just got off the phone. They are literally going in to the forum of the Emmys in LA. This is Emmys Day. Just came back. Our incredible guest, who you've seen a couple of times, I think more so at our group shots. Now we've kind of we've got him down to a solo spot because we want to get into his brain in a little bit because we've been watching. So you met Shamlessa, Angel in My Arm, and if you are watching and not listening, you're going to see he's just launched the Merch Line, talking about that about pre-show. Anyways, we want to talk about what it's like when there's a little bit behind the scenes. You know, you we see what we see, and tonight you're going to see dresses and suits and jokes and people crying and tearing and doing awards and giving those speeches and giving thanks to people that helped them get to where they are, and I think that's probably for me the most beautiful thing. Just came back from the Emmys event, got to hold my own Emmy, not my own. I got to hold someone else's Emmy, and they were just like 54 years they'd been in the industry, Sean. 54 years in the community, so they got to hold their first Emmy, and man, the the smile of relief and pride was just incredible. So there's lots of stuff that goes behind the scenes, and we're going to kind of dig into that a little bit because this guy's like you can't turn around. I don't know if you're following him on social, but when you do, you're like, where are you? Because things are happening and they're happening fast, well deserved. Welcome back to Mission Accepted. Always so great to see you.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely. So let's talk about that. Let's talk a little bit about how anything is possible and how I think from some of the things that I I know that we've shared off camera. I never thought I'd be here. I'm like pinching myself on some things. I know that you probably never thought here. So why don't we bring our audience up to speed because they may not be following you like we are? And it started with, you know, did it start with the book? Did it start before the book? Like, did you always want to do a book? Why don't you fill us in a little bit about you, we'll take it from there.

Well, it's funny, like I like in my early 20s, I was a writer, like writing lyrics. Me, me, and actually my best friend, who I work with now, we were in a band, so I always had an interest in that, and I was always writing in a notebook. And I've talked about it a lot about wanting to write a book for years and years and years, as people do. And it's you know, there's multiple facets to how difficult it is, and just writing the book is just this big feat. And before I went to prison, I had talked to my best friend, and like, because he does movie editing, he does story stories and stuff, and he he told me to get all these books, and then I couldn't get them inside of the prison, so I was just doing what I could. But I had this idea: like when I'm gonna go, I'm gonna lose a bunch of weight, get healthy, work on myself. Like this was the time allotted away for say to like really figure out who I was and what I was gonna want out of life moving forward. Because you strip it back to zero, and then give him time to think about it. So I just I wrote another book, just like a fiction book, from that I was thinking about from my skydive days, and and had just worked on that. And then this was my journal, so it was never supposed to be the book, as you know, because you read it. So, as far as being an author, I didn't think I'd be this kind of author, if. If any, like you know, like getting the book and the idea and the writing's one thing, and then getting a physical copy of book, especially from a guy, like if I see a piece of paper that's like, and you guys know because you've probably dealt with me frustratingly behind the scenes about this guy, you know, you know, if I see across the T or dot the I, my brain's just like bleed blue blob, like I don't know, like so I'm lucky to have people around me that can like see the vision and like just like love and like want me to do that and have the support. Like even meeting you, I had mentioned on on my last kind of

post there, like you've been like such a good friend, such a great mentor. Like some of the stuff we'll probably talk about because you're the type of person that puts people with like-minded people because you know how I just got goosebumps thinking about it like how how people grow when they're in a bubble of people that are like solution-based positive ideas like like get it but yeah I to bring this story back is yeah I kind of wanted to be an author, but so does a lot of people. But to actually get to be is like I never actually imagined it, and I've had to learn so much to get here.

Yeah, I I want to know what the name of your band was. What was the name of your band?

Boldless, endless. When you're like an emo band, I'll send you a photo of the time you've never seen a cooler emo bang ever on somebody.

Okay, I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to that. I, if I remember correctly, and you know it's fair to say that I might not, but if I remember correctly, wasn't that book that you were thinking of writing? Didn't it have something to do with history or like? I mean, this is what was that book that you thought? It

was a book because in my mid 20s, I had started skydiving, so I was working at the skydiving center, and it was a book on the first skyjacker, DB Cooper, and it was kind of like a love story, and like these little pieces that I had seen, which you know, the fiction book, but kind of some of the stuff that I had seen, if told correctly, would seem almost true.

Yeah,

and I and I had told it to a buddy who had been around that scene for years, and he's like, "Yeah, that's believable. Although, you know it's it's a kitchen story, but that that's the one I wrote. It's still there, but now I've got Devil Devil on my right being worked on, so that'll be like a a future thing. I'm kind of in in this lane of book writing right now.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, it's funny. I mean, things come around when they need to come around. Like they come around, they need to come around. Yeah. For those of you that don't know, Angel in My Arm, and he shared about that prison letters was actually his journal. And there's a question I want to ask you because there's you know whether we believe there's a book in everybody or there's not, there's definitely a story in everybody, and platform in which people are willing to talk about it can be variable. You know whether it's on a podcast, whether it's in a book, whether it's on a movie, whether it's on a screen, whatever it is. And I was in I was in New York. I was at an incredible Omega, the Omega Institute. And if anyone remembers the movie Wild, and Cheryl Strayed wrote the book, and it got converted into a book and or into a movie, and it was pretty considerable. It was you. You would say it was a winner. Anyways, I went to a writing class that she wrote, and one of the questions that came up, and even for myself, I'll be completely transparent. You know, I have a story. We have stories. I think I've got a few. And there's always this. It was one of the questions that she was asked. When do you know when to share something personal or deep, or would surprise people, or would affect people in the family or people reading something? How did you navigate that? Because this is this was personal. You didn't write it filter. You never thought it would hit pages. Never mind some stages, which it definitely has,

yeah, yeah. Right?

What, like, what did you have? How did you talk to yourself? Because I, I'll be again transparent. For me, I have a lot of nervousness when I first, when I decided to write the book that was really personal, and I was telling like the true stories, like the stuff that happened. I was walking with a woman who was my personal assistant at the time, and she happened to be a writer, and I couldn't write it. So I would, at that time, I would talk on the phone with her, and she would just dictate, like she would. Yeah. And I do that, and I'd walk early in the morning, and I'd come back, and I'd start my day like that. Like that wasn't part of my day. That's just how I had to separate myself from my story.

For sure.

How did you deal with it?

Um, like the the the fear of God was gonna come.

The fact that you're like your heart is in here, and I read it. Like the fact that your feelings, that your heart, your oops, your relationship. You had a romantic relationship. You were sharing the things that you were sharing. With her, he talked about personal things. That's a big deal. Did you ever were you ever concerned about what people would think? I mean, I know your personality a little bit. I mean, you probably are over here more than maybe over here, but there's still something personal that's going out to the world.

You'd be surprised, like coming from a very small town, everyone's going to have an opinion, and and you're gonna hear about it through the grapevine somehow. So you know that's some from growing up in a small town that you kind of always have. Like I did care what people were gonna think, and you know, like I was worried in the beginning, and they were never supposed to be read. Like just me and the one person was supposed to read them. And I've said before, like I let one of my older gentlemen friends because he was always out at my place reading in the sun, and I was like, "Oh, you should check these out. He he was like so blown away. He wanted to. That's all he wanted to talk about. For me, it was kind of like you know, I was still wearing a lot of masks. I've talked about lately. Like I'm out of even when I was in a halfway house, I'd come home and you know be the dad, try to be in a relationship. But as soon as I got on that ferry to go back to the halfway house, I'm with a bunch of guys in there that just came from where I was, so I got to play that part, or like you know. And I'm in recovery, so I was still trying to figure myself out. So I was wearing a lot of masks, and this was kind of just like like the last battle of Eight Mile, that movie, like here it is. If you got something to say, like I've said it, so this has actually helped me to lift that. But yeah, super terrifying. Even now, I'm I'm actually scared of this book because it being in in the linear timeline and dated, it was fairly easy to put together. Like, like I'll be honest for with everybody in the world. Like the amount of this book that I've actually read is a lot less than most people because I'm scared of the pages because I lived it. So like I like when I read page now it's coming because it's going to be a big part of my second book because there's a lot of cool stories and prompts in there that you know that book can't tell. So when I do read pages, or I'm sitting at signings

and I catch a glimpse of a page, literally it zaps me out of reality. Like like if I were to read a page in front of you right now, I wouldn't be in front of you right now. I would be inside that page. So like the good pages are awesome. They get excited. There's cool stories, but the bad pages, the hard ones, they were they're like, as I said, I'm scared of this book. That when I actually go and reread this entire book for the sake of what we're doing next, and I read it front to back instead of just like paragraph to paragraph to what I can handle, I'm gonna probably need therapy because this is this was my therapy, and I got to write it down, put it beside me, flip over the page, write the other page, put it beside me, and put a book that was bigger than the page on top of it, and never look at it again. So, I don't know if that hit the mark. No, it

does. I I understand that because I think I mean we all heard the word triggers, right?

Oh yeah.

When you write, it can when you write it or talk. So for me, I had to go talk, and it was like outside myself because if someone because if I was writing it, I would be too much in the emotion of it, where I could disassociate. And as much as that doesn't sound like how a writer should write, let me tell you, there's a lot of times when you're writing about trauma, or you're writing about

yeah

about personal things, or you're writing about it was how I was able to do that. The only way I was able to do that was through audio, like she didn't exist. Like I was walking on the seawall and I didn't see her face. She was on the phone, and then we were going through every year of my life. And it got to a certain point. Then she got a gig, and it's actually honestly Sean still sitting there on a drive undone, and that has been sitting there undone for

yeah

like eight years. And I I ask myself many times, when are you going to do it? When are you going to do it? Right now, I'm going to do another book that's that's creeping up on me that I need to do. And um, but there isn't anyone that I know that hasn't done a memoir, and a memoir is very similar in the sense that it's you and you. You're writing your memoir. There's stories that you tell in your memoir. There isn't anyone I know that hasn't done a memoir that hasn't either been pushed into therapy or was prepared enough to know the therapy. Because you need to, whether it's you want to call it containment or disassociate or understand that that's your past, and not bring it into the conversations you're having in the next week, or emotions, or you might eat three buckets of ice cream, and why are you eating three buckets of ice cream because you're emotionally eating and all that kind of stuff? That can happen.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, with this, it's like the whole book, like visually, like it's one big emotional trigger for other cool stuffs that's happening. It's not all bad. Like you know, there was less like some huge revelations and huge turning points in my life that changed me. But it's like it's like giving the world everybody in the world is the firing squad now. Lucky for me, I've gotten like a lot of positive stuff. Lots of like you know. Lots of feedback online of how it's helping people. The last podcast I did, the pain of addict or the pulse of addiction story, I did that on Friday. It's on Spotify. After that, we talked for like half an hour, and he was like, he gave me a whole nother level of reach. He emailed me all these different recovery centers, all these different people to talk to, all these different grand people you can talk to. Like a couple things where I get $10,000 off of treatment that I can hand away, contacts that can help people get to the front of the line. Not that I think that any specific person should jump to the front of the line because they know me, but there is people out there that you know fastly need the front of the line. So this has become more of like, okay, I'm an author and a screenplay writer, and you know, has changed the way people view me from like this heavy, like this guy across the street when you see him, to this guy that's like an individual artist. Like I'm like got the artist vibe now, which is super cool. But it's been, it's actually starting to become like a movement of being able to help people move forward outside of just the book. And I didn't create that; it created itself. We're just trying to harness it the best that we can over media and contact, right?

Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk a little bit about when that starts to happen. And I love this conversation because there's so many similarities to when 262 started to you know when it things start to grow on its own that you not necessarily that you didn't want that you see going in a direction and all of a sudden you get someone's number or you're you have this and you're like and it starts to grow and and from someone who's been standing on this side and watching you for I don't know how long now, like just under a year or something.

Yeah, almost a year.

That's, I mean, I look at the goalposts, the things that are happening for you, and it's vast. And you did. I don't think you came from a media world. You're in media, like you are absolutely 100 in media. You're on screen. You're, you know, you're like behind the stage, you're in front of the stage. What has that been like for you? From a, do you ever look in the mirror and go, "What? Like, what's the personal piece? Like, how have you been able to handle? Because look, I don't think that it's unusual that when success starts to happen for people, there's a large majority that that's a big container. It comes with, you know, what how people feel responsible. A lot of sabotaging happens when this.

Yeah,

for

sure. How

have you not? This is such a critical piece for our listeners because they are entrepreneurs growing and trying to go break. You watch it. How did you not sabotage?

For me, I'm good at sabotaging my life. I'm very good at that, so I know that all too well. And I'm good at like I like chaos and pain. And I had my whole life. I had this thing which I now know. There's two terms that I've heard recently where I'm just making me cringe saying them out loud, so you know that I'm internally cringing. Is frenemy pleased to hear that be said by like my sisters, and I'd be like, "Oh my God, here we go! But when you look up the definition, it's like when you have ideas, maybe your friends are your enemies. But if they don't see your vision the way that you do, when you tell somebody whose life trajectory is different, it's not a bad thing that you talk to people, but talk to people that have been there because you know being an idea maker and a creative isn't isn't like what what normal people or people who have like nine to five jobs and you know there's no like I'm not saying anything negative towards that, but there's just the types of people that you know having these wild ideas is risky and it's unsafe. So talking them to people who like, you know, aren't on the big risk versus reward factor, they're probably not going to be able to give you much advice as far as like maybe you should or shouldn't go all in, you know, because we learned through the fire, right? But like the imposter syndrome was hard for me because now moving into this space, even like I had a hard time like moving up to the next level. Like I had this ceiling where if I got to there, I didn't deserve what was past, and so I had to really let that go, and I had to let go what I thought success was. I had to let go what I thought people were, or like people are all like me, so it catches me off guard when someone does something I wouldn't do. So I really had to detach and look at it for what it was. All of what's happening with me, like you know, we've been friends for a while, and I watch what you do, and I'm like, if people only knew how much it takes, it

might not seem so glamorous. The glaviny parts, you know. So I look at that, and it's like having good mentors, like you know, the it helped me, like even yourself helping me, because we we talk quite a bit, we become good friends, and um, you know, I relationships like that help take away the imposter syndrome because you're so busy and. Doing your own thing and a creative, and you're all over the map, and you have all these awesome ideas, and you and you work with lots of people. That if I wasn't supposed to be there, you don't have time for me because you're so busy. So just interactions like that, along with having this thing that I believe in and people believe in, has helped lift that because I was so scared, like it's a scary thing. But you know, we all deserve to be there. There's lots of rejection, but you know what I've been learning is rejection's nothing. If like I read this thing, if we knew how many times it took to get rejected before we were going to get a win, every rejection would be like that one closer to the goal. We'd be excited for it, not scared of it. So it's like just being creative is scary. Putting out ideas is scary. I don't. Did I?

No, absolutely. I think that no. I agree. I believe that's where the that's where kind of kinship happens. That's where I have. I mean, look at what I do. So I just had this conversation with someone where someone that had, you know, who came to see me, they had as much confidence, maybe, or felt felt confident in doing the podcast. They did a group podcast. They just signed to do their own TV show with

us. Yeah,

had happened in I don't know maybe 18 months. And what I say to the person who's ready to do a group podcast and a group podcast only is, don't look at TV. It's not meant maybe to your future, but maybe it is meant to be your future. But I always say to people, you wouldn't be on the other side of the screen with me if there wasn't something here. And same for me. I was sitting at that table. I remember the first time I went to go onto a red carpet. I literally have told this story before, where I was super ready, super dressed, not dressed, not chevalier, my hair not good. There was no reason for me in my mind to not feel ultimate, to not feel great. I felt great, and in three seconds, whatever you want to call it-a goblin or whatever-just said something to me. Like I heard a like a voice from my past. I think I'm

yeah

five. I heard I heard a five year old voice, and you could have wrapped it up with "Who do you think you are? Which I don't know if you ever heard that growing up, but I heard that all

the

time. I

got in trouble all along. I heard it.

You think you are right, and then you know, you know. So I thought that, and I had to turn around and use. Let's just say I cursed to the to the to the air, like to the air. I turned like it was a different person and said, "You can da da da, you know. I'll talk to you later and make a choice to step into and continue and hold on. And there was a situation, even just coming back from the Emmys, it was full game, and it was next level, and it was next play, and it was that. And I felt that uncomfortableness at times. I was like, and I'm like, damn, you know, you've been you've been uncomfortable before. You're fine if you're not meant to be here. You wouldn't be here, and all that kind of stuff. And and I can catch it in a nanosecond, but that's there's there's still. I mean,

I think it keeps us humble.

Yeah. Yes. I

think it keeps us humble because, like, you know, when we're in the glam spot, it's awesome, and there's all these people there that you know have been there longer, but they're they're bigger, and we're in the same spot. Like, we get to talk with them, and like, you know, even handing out books to people who are who are celebrities, and they're like asking me if I'm going to sign it. It's like, you know, yeah. But it's also like you do. I think that that voice keeps us humble because if we shut it out too much, then it would then we might be get too egotistical without it, and then we get to learn that lesson. But you know, also being prepared. Like for me, like I'm always doing something, and if I'm if I've hit a wall, I'll switch gears. But I still got to be doing something unless I'm like taking a distraction time, and then I've chosen to do nothing. But like even knowing you, like and same for me, like when we got stuff going on, our office isn't our office. Our whole house becomes the office, and our whole life becomes the office. So, like your office goes to your kitchen; it's all over your living room. It's in your bedroom at night. It's your laptop. When you're in the car, you're doing voice notes. Like, so I do feel that that imposter thing does happen, and like, and you know, it actually gives me a bit of relief. Notice that that happens to you, to you, even though whatever, but it does keep us humble because it could all go away in an instant.

Absolutely, and I think that that even from an entrepreneur's standpoint, take a side to you know, for me, take away the media or what people would consider the glam or whatever. Being an entrepreneur a number of years and. Deciding to go to that next level, what it takes on the inside to break away, like when you talk about, you know, the circle that we had, or the circle that I've had, or the circle this, and that's a real difficult one for me because I'm the person who's-I won't say that my door is unlocked all the time. I'll just say like I'm the person who has an open door all the time, and I'm like, let's all go together. I don't think it was about. It wasn't hard for me to continue going. What hard was hard for me was something that some people didn't want to come with, and dancing back into different worlds, right? And yeah, um, entrepreneur. I was the first entrepreneur of my family, I was probably the. There was about 40 of us that hung out, like literally 40. When I worked in the nightclub scene, and when I went, like that whole family that I have that I'll see on Saturday, you know, that whole family that I have, and I was the only one, like literally the only one, other than maybe one or two people that decided to maybe go like go into real estate and real estate development at that time, and they're like, you know, it was really hardcore. They're like, what are you doing? Like going into entrepreneurship, and so I'm not talking yesterday. I'm talking a few days before that where entrepreneurship wasn't so accessible, whatever.

Yeah,

and it's you know, I don't know. You probably maybe you do, maybe you don't. I don't know, but it was a lonely road.

Oh yeah, entrepreneurship is. If people are are are choosing entrepreneurship, is they want to make money. Well, it's kind of like to me like lose that ideal because really what we're trying to do as entrepreneurs is learn enough that we can create an engine that runs and hopefully that's a nice enough engine that it runs some money in, right? Because it's not a nine to five job, and there's a lot of fails, and it's scary. Like I was told, because I've been an entrepreneur a long time. I've got entrepreneurs in my family. I'm probably the most risky bat before, you know. But like, talk to entrepreneurs and have mentors is huge. Like I still have people like who I won't talk to about my ideas, but I definitely like sharing them when the package is kind of done because they aren't excited to see it. They just can't see it until it's there. Like when this book came out, I've been telling people that I'm putting out a book for months and months and months, and then when I show people the book, they're like, "Oh my God, you actually you wrote a book. I'm like, "Yeah, the the the don't you remember me only talking about this for months?

Yeah, yeah.

So I think with the entrepreneurship stuff is like really get ready to be comfortable in the uncomfortable positions. You know, take the micro wins where it do, and just enjoy it. And all like for me, like if I start thinking about this thing blowing up, and you know I'm gonna be rich or whatever like that's spoiling it because when you say say I get to that point I'm not gonna be talking about whatever I'm spending my money on I'm gonna be talking about like building a small little podcast booth in this corner behind me and throwing like trying to sell books and like you know picking between like this and that or you know, going to a signing and selling three books, or selling 30 books, or you know, like those are the stories that people tell, like because that's the hardships. So I think like entrepreneurship is hard, but man, is it worth it? But it's got to be something that you love doing. I I go to bed every night excited to most nights, not every night. Excited to wake up to like see what's going on. And now that the team is getting bigger, like I can only imagine because I know you've got a big team and you got an awesome team. But how many how many people did you go through to create the solid foundation of a cool team? And I've met a lot of your teams, so I know it's it's really awesome. But it's like then you start getting this team, so everybody starts like building a watch. You're putting the gears in, and then now you get to put the time dials in, and it's like almost there to where you put the glass on, and you get to watch the time unfold. So that's my like my vision with

it. Let's tell the audience because we're talking a lot about that things moving forward and things coming your way, and building teams. And the one thing I will say about my team is, I absolutely love and adore my team. And my team for me is like another aspect of family. And yeah, the one thing that I have been I have done ever since I had my first company is my team meetings were always circular, and I always talked last. And I did that before Simon and Mel Robbins and all those guys said to do whatever you did. It was just a natural instinct to just you know stay quiet and let people have a space to share, which is why volume invisibility. But the that is such an important piece, and I believe that the team has to buy in on the mission. Like for

yeah, 100%

I yeah, for me, I will take someone with less skills and bigger heart if that heart aligns with the mission. Because I know it's like Sean, and you know what it's like when this all in like one of our team is you know had something happen to them, or recently we had someone in our team or their you know their husband went to the other. And it was like, you know, we we we have to be able to pick up the pieces until that you know levels out. So all those things become really important. Tell the audience some of the things you wrote a book that you didn't know you were writing. I mean, that's your that's my tagline for you today. You wrote a book that you didn't know that you were writing, and then it hit, and you went through that process, and then it hit, and you did a lot of due diligence and put it out there, and then it started to pick up momentum. And honestly, we're not talking a long period of time. So from the time that happened to how we are now, let's share. I told people that they were going to feel hopeful. I told people that they were going to feel like anything's possible. So share with

us.

Share with us the bulldozer thing that's been going on.

Anything is possible, and that's like if people think that that it is, and you know, just whatever that spot inside of you is that's telling you that it is, and find out where it is and have a good chat with it. And like maybe not just jump the end of the dock into the water because you had a chat with it, but like find the steps to guide that and nurture that part of you towards the goal. Because you know, I always was fairly successful in whatever I did, but like I've said, I had this ceiling of success that I didn't allow myself past. I get there, I kind of like to embellish because I was there, and then I wouldn't be enough, so I draw. I just sabotage my life. I've done it lots. With this one, like I was just writing letters, so I wasn't in my own head in prison. You know, during COVID, solitary confinements, lockups. You know, you don't really have. Like, I had some people that I knew in there, but like, you don't really know anybody. Everybody's going through their own thing. So this was like my big outlet, and like we've talked, it was never supposed to be released. And then I got kind of like one person was like you have to do this and I kind of always wanted to and I thought about it but he was like confirmed like and he's like an older gentleman guy this isn't his type of story and he just read it because it's me he's known me for 20 some years he's living in my building and and he talking me into it. So where it's gone from then till now is like I have to really pay attention to stay in the way I'm growing and not naturally react to the way I was because denying that who I was being completely fixed. I am a changed person, and but it could change back really fast. Like we got to think. Like that was my whole life building that mask. So I have to watch things so close now and have discipline and non-negotiables to making good choices. So for the hope thing, like I got turned down six times, five or six times for publishing, because

nobody wanted to publish this. Like we don't emphasize in our advertising as much, which we're about to. That like for anybody who hasn't seen the book, let me just do this here. The whole thing is actually the original letters, and I have the original letters. So publishers don't like that. The grammars, junk, spelling. I'm pretty good at spelling. Penmanship's pretty good most days. The hard days are not. I'm scribbling stuff out. I'm like remembering halfway down the page something I should add in, like drawing an arrow through all the letters down so I could, you know. So no one was supposed to read it, but it wasn't like a desired book. I'm not like I'm not like an like a writing major. I like just like when I write. I like I write until I think you should breathe, and then go dot dot dot, and then write until I think you should breathe in the sentence type writing. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's like I released a book that shouldn't even be a book by nature, as in it. You know, this isn't English literature style writing. This is just like hodgepodge, but it's not even about that. It's about there's so much emotion in it. So for the the hope and the perseverance, just like if someone tells you you can't, don't ask them again because you can, because you can. Like like like think about people who've done it. If they can do it, we can do it. And if we can't do it, then we're just not the ones that can do it. And if we think it's going to be easy, like they make it look easy because they messed up so many times. Probably they make it look easy because they have a cool team behind them. Like for our teams, I'm starting to get a team now. Nobody on my team wants to be in my spot. They want to be in their spot? Like my my best friend, he doesn't even like pictures of him on on Facebook. I got one of us three at that dinner a year ago on Facebook, but that's the only one I have him on there. And he likes his spot, so we work as a cool dynamic. So it's like before we really had that, it was just grinding away, hitting the walls, learning, getting frustrated, trying to calm myself down, you know, I've had people in the beginning be like, "Oh, I've heard through the grapevine, oh, he thinks he's an actor. He thinks he's an author. Saying it to like a mutual friend, and my mutual friend, good friend of mine, was like, "Well, he is an author. He signs books at Indigo, and he is an actor. He's kind of in some movies stuck up for me.

Yeah,

and then stop being. Friends with those people because they were just they didn't they had too much time on their hand and they were watching my stuff but that still affected me a little bit at the time and like it doesn't affect me now and it didn't really like hurt me do a level up hurt it was just like why though this is pretty cool and then now it's like I just like what I'm doing

yeah

and that's the biggest thing for people. Like, if you like it, it doesn't matter how hard it is. You're enjoying it. Things are hard. If you if you wake up with some sort of purpose or some kind of idea that like fulfills your heart and your mind with good stuff, and it brings around like minded people, you know, do it. If it's an idea, sometimes you have to see the idea. Like I've seen some ideas come to fruition perfectly, and then when I saw it, I was like, "That's not the one. But now I know where to go. Like, expect a lot of that, but ultimately, like, people should be doing it. It's hard, but it's great, and it's it's hard until it's great, and when it's great, it's even harder. And then the better it gets, the more work it becomes. But it's like, what do you think we're doing here?

Yeah, exactly. Book launch, book book launches, book launches everywhere. Podcast and those kind of things. Media starts to happen. You're getting on sets, right? You're you're working as an actor, not just once, not just a little, not just maybe. You have now a working actor. You are working on a second book.

Yeah, Devil on My Right, the Beautiful Disaster. The

Beautiful Disaster.

Devil on My Right, The Beautiful Disaster.

Yeah. So the second book is where the second book is at. Yeah. Merch line. Some beautiful things are coming together. Let's give people some time frame because here's the deal: time frames are individual and independent, in my opinion. I look at Ocean. You know, he's 22. People like, oh my gosh, I'm like seven years. Seven. You only know he only launched two years ago. So

yeah,

processes. Everyone's got their own timeline. Everyone's got the right time. People activate, but for you, I you're probably one of the people that I think things were brewing before there was you. You hit your stride, and whatever this lifetime, whatever experiences, you're you're chopping it up pretty quickly. So you know, you're one of those people that people can go, oh my gosh, it was an instant success, and I'm like, stop that. It

was a world of bad choices first. 40 years of it, actually.

So just tell us a little bit. If I miss anything there, I did. There's something I didn't talk about on purpose because I think it's your place to tell, and I love for you to to kind of you know just crack the egg a little bit. I know you can't tell everything, you know.

Yeah,

I've leaned into it a couple times. Yeah, yeah, but yeah. Tell us our timeline and tell tell us something that's in the brew.

Well, when I when we first got the book out, it was like december 15 or something like that last year, and shortly after that, I had made like a one-year goal list split up into quarterly's, and I knocked the whole list out in like three months because you know sitting at a desk 12, like I'm I'm like writing notes down as I know you do, so that in the morning I can be phoning people in Eastern time with these questions and emailing and working my way to later at night in the Pacific time because you know it's a couple hours ahead and cold calling, cold emailing 1000s and 1000s and 1000s, and it seemed like it was going slow, but that was only like nine months ago, you know. So it's blown up. I think that, you know, it it might not blow up this fast for some people, obviously. And then if it goes slow for people, what I would say to those people, I think, would be like, enjoy the slow process, put in more time, or take it for what it is. Because if it goes or when it goes or whatever happens, it's a whole different ball game. I lived like a pretty wild life, doing pretty wild things, managing all this stuff. Like not like this, but like pretty wild. A lot of pain and a lot of bad decisions. So I'm kind of like over making bad decisions, and I feel like I made them all. So I can see how bad decisions play out in the future now. So it's pretty easy to stay positive and on on a good trajectory, but being humble, like it started out just the book, and all of a sudden, like you said, merch, podcasts, radio shows. Now I'm traveling and doing signings. We got some other cool merch stuff coming out, not just clothes, some just creative stuff to help people kind of like do kind of what I did, and then because because we work together, some people that you know that I know that you connect with connect and you you put that together, reached out, and we've been working on this screenplay for the last couple months. It's almost. Done and then you know the

processes come from that, and it's you know obviously you know like a hope and perseverance and a changing in your life love story with lots of tragedy. So it'll be cool to see how that comes out. I mean, a creative the writing process. We write like we're filming. Me and my partner filming in February, March, a film that we wrote that's different genre, and that's pretty cool. But then working with people who who write differently is is a neat thing to see. And then also like have a big fan base up in Manitoba, so we're talking about maybe filming in Manitoba for each or both of these. So that's kind of a cool Easter egg to that, but yeah, like as far as the question is, like when it it's been going pretty fast. I've had to like stop and smell the roses all day. I got to sometimes look at emails. I've said lots to make sure this is still true. I got to remind myself that if this all ends right now, like say we turn off this podcast and the book stops, and everything stops. Would I be upset? Naturally, we would be. But also, could I be happy with? I got to experience that day, or I got to experience this time with these people. I got to do these small things, and that's why for me, I try to say with the acting and with the book stuff. All I like the big goal for like money wise, is just to make five cents so I could say I was a paid author or a paid actor. Not that I need to say that I'm paid, but you know, five cents is enough.

Anything above that's like I'll be grateful just to have the experience because you know, like we talked about earlier, like if if I'm doing this to make money, I'm in the wrong spot. So for anybody, like for hope, just like keep going, keep going. Like it only goes up. Like if we if we did something for 10 years and we were worse at worse at it 10 years later, that's not how life works. You know.

Yeah, that's how life works. Get a coach. Get a coach.

Yeah. Read some books. Talk to people. Like minded people. Like thinking about what's happened for me, just just us meeting, you know, like this is how it works.

Yeah, and I think that you know, there's lots of lessons to be said. I will. This is what I say about my experience in entrepreneurship, and maybe it's a saying. Maybe it's not for you. But I say that it's a top to bottom experience. So I'm at the bottom, and I make my way to the top of whatever that is that I wanted to accomplish. But if I could choose to want to expand, which you know, if someone could just stand beside me and say, "Deb, stop it! Don't do that! Don't if you know. If I choose to expand, then I'm back at the bottom of the next level of where I want

to go. I'm at

the bottom of building a team. I'm at the bottom of now we're going to branch out into this geography, or oh, we're going to go from local to international. And so, for me, in my experience, I've been at top to bottom, from a top to bottom, top to bottom, which is where the the gratitude and the I can't believe I was sitting there to. What's

what's better though? What's better to be at the top of the ladder you're on or to be at the bottom of the ladder above you?

Oh, yeah.

Well, at least if you're at the bottom of the ladder above you, you can climb.

Yeah,

you can only fall if you're at the top of the ladder, you're on.

No, the only thing I like the top is like some of the mentoring things, and then you get a no, and you go from the no into the unknown, and the no into the unknown, and you get that step again.

Yeah.

Look, I know we're coming to to a bit of a close. That's a lot of things that you said in a short period of time, and the things that have happened, and you've got like a second book. Sometimes it's a it's a lot. It's a it's a big experience for people to go one book and it goes into the other, right? So a couple of things that I'm sure the audience is asking, it gets asked of me and it gets asked of you. I'm sure. So you've got a lot of things going on at the same time, and they're multi. Like they're multi. Like they're just growing and growing, I'm gonna. You're like like two rabbits or something.

They call on the movie sets. They call me the multiverse.

Oh, that's my that's

my dad, daddy, mom on the movie sets because I can do all the. They just do all the things.

Do all the things. Um, two things because you've had so many cool things happen, right? Two things. What was the biggest risk today that you've made in your business, where it really felt like it was-it was a big risk. Start there

with the with the book one. It was just an emotional risk. You know, most people would think like the money risk of starting a business usually have to invest a bunch of stuff. That's the great thing about being an author. Just to do this, it's a lot of time, a lot of time. But also, you put your heart on this on the line, like whether it be a fantasy book or a nonfiction or a sci-fi book. It's still versus like what I've written. It's still who you are that wrote that. So the it's it's an emotional risk, which I think is a. A lot scarier than most risks.

The next question I want to ask you is: Do you had a lot of cool things happen? What is one of the coolest, or if not the coolest, that you will never like in years to come when you're telling a story on a podcast and you got a you know maybe a little little bald gray? What what's one of the coolest things to date that's happened for you?

Can I give you three mini ones, mini win ones?

Give me three mini ones.

Okay, so we were filming. We were we were filming the movie called Runaway with Paula Patton, James Franco, Adam Beach, Josh Dumel. Only a couple months ago, called Runaway, and we were up in Merritt filming, and we were having a social night because everybody we were switching nights from day to night, so you got to be got the next day. So the night of everybody goes to the bar. That they usually keep the bars open a little bit later. I don't drink, so I'm drinking Sprite, and everybody was there. I like to show up a little bit late, especially since I don't drink. They let everybody get kind of their like pre glow on, and I walk in, and I walk in with some six foot eight guys behind me that are characters. There's still people in there that are known, and the waitress comes up to me and she's like, "Hey, right in front of these people, and goes, "Hey, I recognize you. You're that guy on Instagram from prison that wrote that book. And I was like, "Like, I'm literally like, did you not look to my right or left,

yeah. And

I was like, "Do you have a copy? She's like, "No. So I went, grabbed a copy, cited for in front of everybody, and that kind of started off my next story, where like, you know, I give out I give out books to to people on set, not just the actors, but like cast and crew, because you get to know each other over a market, kind of a family. Like, here's a piece of me, and I had Paula Patton come up to me, and she had been talking to to somebody. She's like, "Hey, Sean, I'm Paula, and I'm like, "Hi, I'm Sean, and I'm like, "Oh, you know, like I'm just like what? And then, and then she's like, "I heard about your book. I'd love to read it. And for me, I'm like. I don't even like. I'm not a starstruck person, but it caught me off guard because we weren't talking. We hadn't talked. She just came out of the blue to me, and what a sweetheart she is! Like all these people are, but what a sweetheart! Like smiles, hugs every day on set, like so happy. And then the third one was I was doing a signing at Metrotown, I think, and this lady came up, and she was like, "Oh, your parole officers, and I had four parole officers out of prison and one in prison, and she named them all, and I'm like, "Yeah, and she goes, "Well, how's the movie stuff? Because when I went and did my first film, I wasn't allowed past Langley; that was my border, so I had to get a lot of permission, a lot of signing people, a lot of moving parts just to get me there for that three days. And but we didn't get me there, and it's called Get Past. It's on the internet with Lou Diamond Phillips, and then she starts asking me about this motel that I lived in because I had to move into a motel when I got out. Now I lease the entire property-it's affordable housing thing in Gibson's-and I finally I was like, "How do you know all this? And she's like, "Everything you did for that three years while you were incarcerated on parole had to go through me to get signed off for it to be okay. I'm glad I signed off on

one of them all because there was a lot of things that you did that most people. She's like, "Most people don't even get one of these things, you got like five or six, and most of the time when they deal with people in there, they're like guys that are like tell them what they want to hear. So it was cool. She came and bought a bunch of books. It was round circles. She signed me all the way. I did everything I said I was going to do, and now she's buying a book off me randomly in Metro Town. That's the third story.

That's amazing. All right, we're going to shift gears, my friend. First of all, congratulations! I say it to you often. You're one of my dearest. I love our conversations because when I need to get really clear and make solid steps to your my call. Yeah, and it is nothing better than to see your friends win. That's just

absolutely.

It's just a beautiful thing, and that's one of the things about the world of creativity. When creatives get together, when entrepreneurs get together, when people who are looking forward get together, and you win together, it's a it's a it's a beautiful elixir that will not go to any self doubt. But I'm going to shift gears. You're on your way to a desert island, just you and you, and baby, you ain't coming back. There's a nice record player that we put there for you. Nice record in a vinyl, and in your suitcase you have room for one of vinyl. What could you not imagine not listening to for the rest of your life? I said it

before when I got given this question, and I'll say it again, and then we'll never change the Blink 182 album, Dude Ranch front to back banger banger banger. Every time I put it on, I can sing the whole album. It makes me happy. I've even cried through that album, listening to it. Nostalgia, driving from a movie set to a book signing, thinking about my dad, how proud he is because he's super proud. He likes to tell me all the time we had a rough relationship, and I put that on, and that was. A rougher time in our life, and it's just like it gives me that feeling like you haven't made it yet, but you've made it here, and it's good. So be happy with that. And then I like well off, do the pre-crime brass, you know?

Yeah, I know. I know. Play

22.

What you're gonna say or pick something different? So I'm gonna come up with a different question for you next time, because it, you know, inevitably you're going to be back.

Means with your food never change.

Okay, so I'm gonna, I'm because it's Emmy's day. I'm gonna show you. So this is for the Oscars, right? Remember, I was walking through the L.A. airport, flying home from an Oscars suite event, and I saw this, and I was like, I know I told you, right? Like I was like, I got to get this, I got to get this, and I got to show show Sean. And I had this premonition about me sitting in a front row of the Oscars and watching you take it. It was incredible. And then I called until June. That was before all this stuff. So here's your little Oscar. It's still sitting here waiting. You can come side it when you pick up your jacket.

Just, just know if I had the jacket, I'd be wearing it right now. And if I if slash if slash when this Oscar thing, I'm gonna say when because that's how we do when we envision stuff. You have and always will be part of that speech in a big way.

No worries. I'm gonna be sitting in the front row. What are you talking about? I don't mention my name. Get my butt. Let's share. Anyway, anyways, adore you. Congratulations, listeners and viewers. There was too many gem drops for me to to mention and listen. I told you you would feel inspired. I told you that you would feel that anything is possible. And I know, and it's not about anything's possible because of how vast and how fast anything's possible. Because I think if there's anything that you pick up in this conversation, you got to pick up on the energy, you got to pick up on the zest, you got to pick up on the bravery. You know, I'm a big borrow bravery. If you don't have it, just borrow it. You only need it maybe sometimes for 15 minutes, and you can go back feeling like the way you did before. So I want to congratulate you on anything and everything that you're doing today. I love you. I adore you. I thank you, love you, and adore you. And thank you for being with us, Sean. And here's the thing: I'll say it, and I'll say it again. Until we meet again, you be well, and you stay groovy. Bye for now.

You too.